Why people are leaving church: Compass 111

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On this episode of Compass: Finding spirituality in the everyday, host Ryan Dunn, a former youth minister, explores the factors that contribute to people leaving the church. Ryan starts by sharing how a student's experience made him question the effectiveness of ministry for young people. The episode covers seven reasons for people leaving the church, which includes societal changes, abuse in the church, easily-found info online, and the dismissal of skepticism.

Episode Notes

• In this episode:
  (00:00) 7 reasons people leave church
• (00:44) Changing relationships
• (05:58) Teenage phase is societal construct with implications.
• (08:38) Prevent abuse through policies, training, and transparency.
• (13:08) Limited faith = people leave to internet.
• (16:06) Slow embrace of technology
• (19:35) The Gospel of Sin Avoidance
• (21:37) Features over experience
• (24:05) Final word

Related episodes

• Linking love and justice with Otis Moss III
• Faith in Action: Examining the Moral Monday Protest
• When restlessness is a gift
• 10 recommended shows for theological reflection

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This episode posted on June 14, 2023

Episode Transcript:

[Ryan Dunn]

THIS IS THE COMPASS PODCAST, WHERE WE DISRUPT THE EVERYDAY WITH GLIMPSES OF THE DIVINE.

YOU’VE PROBABLY HEARD ALL ABOUT THE STUDIES AND REPORTS REGARDING AMERICANS INVOLVEMENT IN CHURCH. IF YOU HAVEN’T SEEN THOSE REPORTS, LET ME SUM UP: INVOLVEMENT IN CHURCH IS ON DECLINE.

IN FACT, ACCORDING TO MY INSIDER INFO, IT’S BEEN ON DECLINE SINCE 2009. BUT NOW IT’S REACHED THE POINT WHERE SOME SURVEYS SUGGEST THAT CHURCH-GOERS ARE NO LONGER THE MAJORITY IN THE UNITED STATES. 

THAT BEING SAID, SPIRITUALITY STILL SEEMS AN IMPORTANT DISCIPLINE FOR MUCH OF THE POPULATION… IT’S JUST THAT THERE’S A GROWING NUMBER WHO NO LONGER SEE CHURCH AS NECESSARY TO THEIR SPIRITUAL GROWTH.

For centuries, churches served as sanctuaries of solace, guidance, and community. But as our society evolves and undergoes profound changes, individuals are questioning their relationship with organized religion. 

What motivates them to embark on this soul-searching quest? What challenges are they facing within the walls of these once hallowed institutions? 

MY NAME IS RYAN DUNN AND WE’RE DISCUSSING THESE stirring questions, seeking not only to understand but also to find common ground and spark meaningful dialogue HERE ON THE COMPASS PODCAST.

IN THIS EPISODE, WE’LL EXPLORE 7 REASONS WE SEE PEOPLE LEAVING CHURCH. AND IT’S REALLY FOR THE PURPOSE OF INSPIRING SOME NEW IDEAS ABOUT HOW WE MIGHT ENGAGE IN FAITH-BASED COMMUNITIES AND PROVIDE HEALTHY CONNECTIONS FOR PEOPLE.

PRIOR TO BECOMING AN INTERNET CONTENT CREATION MINISTER, I WAS A YOUTH MINISTER. I AM ON THE FORMER-YOUTH-MINISTER BANDWAGON. I FEEL LIKE THERE ARE A LOT OF FORMER YOUTH MINISTERS OUT THERE. AND NOT A SMALL PORTION OF THE LISTENING AUDIENCE FOR THIS PODCAST CAN SAY “YEAH, I USED TO BE A YOUTH MINISTER, TOO.’

THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF REASON WHY THERE ARE SO MANY FORMER YOUTH MINISTERS. FOR A LONG TIME, THE ROLE WAS CONSIDERED A STEPPING STONE FOR SOMETHING ELSE. THERE WAS A LOT OF LEARNING TO DO WITHIN THE CHURCH ABOUT FAIR EXPECATIONS FOR YOUTH MINISTERS AND MINISTRIES WITH YOUNG PEOPLE. 

BUT LET ME TELL YOU WHY I LEFT PROFESSIONAL YOUTH MINISTRY.

FOR YEARS, I WATCHED STUDENTS WHO HAD ONCE BEEN MOTIVATED AND INSPIRED LEADERS IN OUR YOUTH PROGRAMS LEAVE THE CHURCH. OR, RATHER, THEY WEREN’T REALLY LEAVING… THEY JUST STOPPED SHOWING UP WITHIN THE CHURCH. AND THESE WERE STUDENTS WHO PREVIOUSLY WOULD SHOW UP TO ANYTHING WE WERE DOING IN THE MINISTRY:

• A PLANNING SESSION FOR FUTURE YOUTH MEETINGS? THEY WERE THERE.

• WEEDING THE FLOWERBED OUTSIDE A COMMUNITY CENTER? THEY WERE THERE.

• SETTING OUT CHAIRS FOR “BIG CHURCH” ON A SUNDAY MORNING… THEY SHOWED UP.

BUT SOMETIME AFTER HIGH SCHOOL, THEY JUST STOPPED.

BUT THAT WAS NOT UNIVERSAL. SOME STUDENTS BECAME LEADERS IN THEIR RESPECTIVE CHURCHES AS THESE YOUNG PEOPLE BECAME YOUNG ADULTS. AND I WAS OFTEN SURPRISED BY THIS BECAUSE OFTEN TIMES THESE WERE NOT THE STUDENTS MOSTLY LIKELY TO BE INVOLVED IN OUR YOUTH SPECIFIC ACTIVITIES.

AND SO AFTER WATCHING THE BEHAVIORS OF FORMER STUDENTS FOR OVER A DECADE AND A HALF, I CAME UP WITH A HYPOTHESIS. AND IT GOES LIKE THIS:

• A YOUNG PERSON’S CHURCH INVOLVEMENT HAD VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH THEIR INVOLVEMENT IN YOUTH GROUP.

• INSTEAD IT WAS THE STUDENTS WHO HAD PLUGGED INTO THE LARGER CHURCH WHO WERE STAYING ACTIVE.

• FOR EXAMPLE, THERE WAS A YOUNG MAN WHO RARELY PARTICIPATED IN OUR YOUTH ACTIVITIES, BUT USHERED AT SUNDAY SERVICE ALONGSIDE HIS FATHER FOR SEVERAL YEARS… HE BECAME HEAVILY INVOLVED IN HIS CHURCH AS A YOUNG ADULT.

• OR THERE WAS ANOTHER YOUNG MAN WHO REALLY DID NOT LIKE YOUTH GROUP, BUT LOVED SINGING IN THE CHOIR ON SUNDAY MORNINGS. AS AN ADULT THAT PERSON STAYED HEAVILY INVOLVED IN CHURCH.

• ONE STUDENT WENT TO SUNDAY SCHOOL CLASS WITH HER PARENTS INSTEAD OF GOING TO THE DEDICATED HIGH SCHOOL SUNDAY SCHOOL… YOU CAN GUESS: SHE’S STILL DOING THINGS IN CHURCH AS AN ADULT.

THESE EXPERIENCES REALLY CAUSED ME TO QUESTION WHETHER OR NOT OUR FORM OF MINISTRY FOR YOUNG PEOPLE WAS THE MOST EFFECTIVE. WAS IT REALLY EFFECTIVE TO KEEP SILO-ING OFF YOUNG PEOPLE INTO PEER-LEVEL GROUPS WHEN THE EXPERIENCE SUGGESTED THAT FUTURE INVOLVEMENT IN CHURCH DEPENDED LARGLEY ON THOSE STUDENTS FORMING RELATIONSHIPS OUTSIDE OF THEIR AGE-LEVEL PEER GROUP?

I HAD THESE DOUBTS ABOUT EFFECTIVE PRACTICE IN CHURCH… AND THIS GROUP CALLED “RETHINK CHURCH” CAME CALLING WITH IDEAS ABOUT USING DIGITAL MEANS FOR RELATIONSHIP BUILDING… AND IT WAS A BIT TOO ENTICING OF A POSSIBILITY TO PASS UP.

SO EARLY IN MY DAYS IN THIS ROLE, I HAD A PODCAST IDEA ABOUT FOLLOWING UP WITH SOME OF THE YOUNG PEOPLE I FORMERLY WORKED WITH. AND I RECORDED SEVERAL INTERVIEWS WITH FORMER STUDENTS ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCES WITH CHURCH AFTER HIGH SCHOOL.

I WOULD SAY THAT MOST OF THESE YOUNG ADULTS WERE NO LONGER ENGAGED IN A CHURCH COMMUNITY. AND MOST OF THOSE WHO WERE UNENGAGED SUPPLIED A PRETTY SIMPLE EXPLANATION FOR THEIR DISENGAGEMENT… AND IT’S GONG TO SOUND FAMILIAR… AND IT GOES LIKE THIS:

• WHEN I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL, MANY OF MY FRIENDS WERE PART OF THE YOUTH GROUP WITH ME.

• BUT AFTER I GRADUATED, I MOVED ON TO DIFFERENT FRIENDSHIPS. AND THOSE FRIENDS AREN’T ENGAGED IN A CHURCH COMMUNITY.

• SO IN HIGH SCHOOL “I NEEDED YOUTH GROUP FOR MY FRIENDSHIPS, AFTER HIGH SCHOOL I’VE FOUND FRIENDS IN OTHER WAYS.”

AND THAT INTRODUCES REASON NUMBER ONE PEOPLE AREN’T COMING BACK TO CHURCH: THEIR FRIENDS AREN’T PART OF THE CHURCH.

AND I SEE THIS AS A RESULT OF OUR SOCIETAL PRACTICE OF CONSTANTLY SILO-ING YOUNG PEOPLE INTO AGE-SPECIFIC PEER GROUPS–ESPECIALLY DURING THEIR FORMATIVE TEENAGE YEARS… WHEN THEY’RE SUPPOSED TO BE LEARNING ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS TO BE ADULT.

DID YOU KNOW THAT “TEENAGE” IS A RELATIVELY NEW DEVELOPMENT?

AT THE TURN OF THE PREVIOUS CENTURY, YOU WERE EITHER A CHILD OR AN ADULT. THERE WASN’T THIS NEBULOUS STATE OF IN-BETWEEN THAT WE’VE NOMINATED TO BE TEENAGERY.

AND NOW WE HAVE TO SEPARATE THIS STRANGE NEW LIFE PHASE FROM THE CHILDREN AND THE ADULTS… BECAUSE THEY’RE INDEPENDENT PUSH FOR AGENCY MIGHT INFECT THE CHILDREN… AND BECAUSE THEIR PUSH FOR INDEPENDENCE AND AGENCY MIGHT ANNOY THE REST OF THE ADULTS.

I’M NOT SURE THERE’S AN INSTITUTION IN WHICH THIS SOCIETAL SEPARATION IS MORE EVIDENT THAN IN THE AMERICAN CHURCH. WHERE IN MANY CONGREGATIONS YOU CAN FIND BOTH SPIRITUAL EDUCATION AND WORSHIP SEPERATED BY AGE DISTINCTION.

WE’VE ENCULTURED YOUNG PEOPLE TO STAY ISOLATED IN A GROUP OF PEERS. AND IF THAT GROUP OF PEERS IS DISCONNECTED FROM THE CHURCH COMMUNITY, THEN THE YOUNG PEOPLE WILL STAY DISCONNECTED FROM THE CHURCH COMMUNITY, AS WELL.

THE FIX WITHIN THE CHURCH IS TO BE VERY DELIBERATE ABOUT HOW WE INVOLVE PEOPLE IN THE WHOLE PRACTICE OF THE CHURCH. I’M NOT GOING TO SAY WE NEED TO BLOW UP OR ERASE ALL THE YOUTH MINISTRIES. BUT IT MIGHT PAY TO SHIFT OUR FOCUS OF YOUTH MINISTRY AWAY FROM GROWING THE YOUTH GROUP AND TOWARDS AN INTENT TO ENGAGE YOUNG PEOPLE IN THE FULL LIFE OF THE CHURCH–ESPECIALLY ALONGSIDE MATURE ADULTS. 

THERE’S A SECOND THING I HEARD FROM THE YOUNG ADULTS I INTERVIEWED ABOUT CHURCH INVOLVEMENT… AND IT REALLY RELATES TO THE FIRST REASON, BUT DESERVES IT’S OWN DISTINCTION.

THEY TOLD ME THEY JUST WEREN’T CONFIDENT THAT IF THEY EVER WERE TO BRING THEIR NEW FRIENDS TO A CHURCH THAT IT WOULD BE A SAFE COMMUNITY FOR THEM.

REASON NUMBER TWO PEOPLE ARE LEAVING IS BECAUSE THE CHURCH HAS A RAP REGARDING MAKING PEOPLE FEEL UNSAFE.

RIGHT NOW THERE’S A SERIES OF DOCUMENTARIES THAT GETTING SOME PRETTY WIDE NOTICE AND THEY ARE ALL ABOUT ABUSES COMMITTED BY CHURCH LEADERS.

IN ONE OF THE DOCS I SAW, THE PRODUCERS INTERVIEWED A PANEL OF FORMER CHURCH PARTICIPANTS. AND IT WAS TELLING THAT A NUMBER OF THEM EXPRESSED A COMMITMENT TO FAITH, BUT ALSO VOWED THEY WOULD NEVER BE PART OF A CHURCH AGAIN.

THERE’S NOT QUICK FIX TO THIS PERCEPTION. INSTEAD WE HAVE TO DISRUPT THE NARRATIVE OF ABUSE BY MAKING SURE THAT ABUSE STOPS. AND THAT MEANS SERIOUSLY ADDRESSING THE SYSTEMS THAT ALLOW FOR A PROLIFERATION OF ABUSE. SO WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT, INSTITUTIONALLY, THERE ARE CHECKS AND BALANCES IN PLACE TO KEEP LEADERSHIP ACCOUNTABLE. 

AT A LOCAL CHURCH LEVEL, THAT MEANS MAKING SURE THAT THERE ARE POLICIES AND PROCEDURES PRESENT THAT DISCOURAGE SITUATIONS WHERE AND WHEN ABUSE CAN EASILY OCCUR. IT ALSO MEANS REGULARLY TRAINING LEADERS ABOUT THE ROLE OF POWER IN ABUSE.

WE CAN FURTHER DISRUPT THE NARRATIVE LETTING PEOPLE KNOW WHAT LENGTHS WE ARE TAKING TO CARE FOR THE VULNERABLE IN OUR MIDST. FOR EXAMPLE, AS CLERGY PERSON IN THE UNITED METHODIST CHURCH, I REGULARLY HAVE TO COMPLETE TRAINING SESSIONS REGARDING TYPES OF ABUSE, APPROPRIATE RESPONSES AND REPORTING PROCEDURES. BEFORE I WAS ORDAINED I HAD TO GO THROUGH A SERIES OF PSYCHOLOGICAL EVALUATIONS, IN PART TO MAKE SURE I WAS SAFE FOR MINISTRY LEADERSHIP.

PEOPLE WOULD BE REASSURED TO HEAR THE ACTIONS OUR CHURCHES ARE TAKING TO ENSURE A COMMUNITY OF SAFETY. IN FACT, I’VE HAD TWO RATHER DRAWN OUT TWITTER CONVERSATIONS WITH CURIOUS PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO KNOW WHAT POLICIES WERE IN PLACE FOR TRAINING OUR CLERGY PEOPLE FOR DEALING WITH ABUSE AND REACTING TO TRAUMA.

WHAT IF IN OUR “ABOUT THE STAFF” SECTIONS OF OUR CHURCH WEBSITES WE INCLUDED THAT PASTOR SMITH WENT TO SUPERBA DIVINITY SCHOOL AND HAS COMPLETED THE SAFER SANCTUARIES LEVEL 2 TRAINING FOR COMMUNITY SAFETY AND ABUSE PREVENTION?

I’LL TELL YOU, I’VE HEARD OF SOME MINISTRY LEADERS WHO LOOK AT THESE TRAININGS AS MERELY A HOOP THEY HAVE JUMP THROUGH. BUT IF THEY HAD TO LIST THEM AS PART OF THEIR PROFESSIONAL CREDENTIALS, THEY MIGHT TAKE IT A BIT MORE SERIOUSLY.

ONE MORE THING WE CAN DO TO DISRUPT THE NARRATIVE ABUSE… BESIDES, YOU KNOW, STOPPING THE ABUSE… IS TO TAKE OUR LANGUAGE OF HOSPITALITY A STEP FURTHER. WE’RE NOT JUST GOING TO TELL PEOPLE THEY ARE WELCOMED… WE’RE GOING TO TELL THEM THEY ARE SAFE.

SEVERAL YEARS AGO I SAT DOWN NEXT TO AN ELDERLY GENTLEMAN AT A CHURCH LUNCHEON. THIS WAS IN MY YOUTH MINISTRY DAYS, AND WE EXPECTEDLY GOT TALKING ABOUT THE YOUNG PEOPLE OF THE CHURCH AND THEN TALKED ABOUT THE YOUNG ADULTS WHO WERE MISSING FROM CHURCH.

WE TALKED ABOUT SOME OF THE WAYS OUR SPECIFIC CONGREGATION WAS TRYING TO MAKE IN-ROADS WITH THE YOUNG FAMILIES OF OUR COMMUNITY. AND THEN THIS GENTLEMAN SAID SOMETHING THAT FLOORED ME. HE SAID “THE PROBLEM IS THAT WE’RE FINE WITH PEOPLE PARTICIPATING ONLY AS LONG AS THEY ARE WILLING TO BECOME JUST LIKE US.”

BEHIND OUR CHURCH SIGNS THAT SAY “ALL ARE WELCOME HERE” IS THIS EXACT MESSAGE. IT’S THE EXPECTATION THAT ANYBODY CAN COME AND SIT IN THE PEWS. BUT ANYTHING ELSE REQUIRES CONFORMITY–OR, WORSE, A DENIAL OF ONE’S NATURE.

IT’S NOT ENOUGH TO SAY ‘YOU ARE WELCOMED’ OR ‘YOU ARE INVITED’. WE ALSO NEED TO SAY ‘YOU ARE SAFE’ AND THEN BACK THAT UP IN ACTION AND PRACTICE. AND THAT MEANS EMBRACING ALL KINDS OF DIVERSITY IN COMMUNITY LEADERSHIP.

LET’S MOVE ON TO THE NEXT REASON PEOPLE ARE LEAVING CHURCH… ACTUALLY, THESE NEXT TWO ARE LINKED TOGETHER AS WELL. BUT LET’S START WITH THIS…

THE DENUNCIATION OF SKEPTICISM.

THIS IS IN OPPOSITION TO EMBRACING SKEPTICISM AS A MEANS TOWARDS REFINEMENT.

A LARGE PART OF MY PROFESSIONAL ROLE IS SOCIAL MEDIA MANAGEMENT. YOU COULD SAY I’M A BIT OF AN INTERNET TROLL… AS I OFTEN ENGAGE IN SOCIAL LISTENING TO GET A GRASP ON WHAT ISSUES OR QUESTIONS OF FAITH PEOPLE ARE ENGAGING WITH.

AND IT SEEMS THAT WHENEVER SOMEONE BRINGS UP AN HONEST QUESTION OF FAITH–AND MOST OFTEN THIS QUESTION COMES OUT OF AN AUTHENTIC EXPERIENCE–A WHOLE HOST OF VOICES WILL TURN UP TO DISMISS THE QUESTION. 

SO SOMEONE MIGHT SAY, ‘I’M HAVING A REAL HARD TIME UNDERSTANDING HOW WE CAN TALK SO MUCH ABOUT GOD’S GOOD PLAN WHEN THIS IS THE SAME GOD WHO FLOODED THE EARTH AND ENCOURAGED THE ISRAELITES TO COMMIT GENOCIDE.’

THOSE ARE SOME LEGIT CONCERNS. BUT TOO MANY VOICES JUMP INTO THE CONVERSATION TO DISMISS THE QUESTIONS AS ALREADY BEING ANSWERED.

THERE’S NO OTHER DISCIPLINE ON EARTH WHERE WE HUMAN BEINGS MAKE AN ASSUMPTION THAT WE’VE DISCOVERED ALL THERE IS TO KNOW.

BUT WE DO THAT IN FAITH. WE’VE MADE AN IMPLICIT ASSUMPTION TAHT WHEN IT COMES TO FAITH, THERE’S NOTHING LEFT TO BE DISCOVERED OR REVISED… SURE THERE MIGHT BE THINGS TO RE-DISCOVER THAT WE’VE FORGOTTEN OVER TIME–BUT THERE’S NOTHING NEW TO DISCOVER.

AND THAT IS A DISCREDIT TO OUR OWN HUMAN EXPERIENCE. ESPECIALLY FOR THOSE OF USE WHO ARE ALIVE TODAY–BECAUSE THIS RELEGATES US TO LESS IMPORTANT FACTORS IN THE GREATER TRADITIONS OF OUR FAITH. IT’S LIKE WE HAVE NOTHING TO ADD. AND IT LIMITS OUR FAITH TO A FIXED, DEFINED AND STATIONARY SET OF PRACTICES AND STANDARDS THAT EXISTS NO WHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD.

I CAN’T THINK OF ANY OTHER PLACE IN OUR HUMAN EXPERIENCE WHERE THAT HAPPENS. 

REASON NUMBER 4 PEOPLE ARE LEAVING THE CHURCH IS THE INTERNET. SERIOUSLY.

THIS RELATES TO THE PREVIOUS REASON BECAUSE IF PEOPLE’S EXPERIENCES AND QUESTIONS ARE DISMISSED AS HAVING NOTHING TO OFFER OUR CONVERSATIONS ABOUT FAITH, THEN GUESS WHERE THEY TAKE THOSE QUESTIONS AND STORIES OF EXPERIENCE… YEAH, TO THE INTERNET.

THE INTERNET MEANS WE NOW HAVE THE ABILITY TO FIND OUR OWN INFORMATION AND PROCESS OUR OWN DISCERNMENT. WE CAN SIDE STEP THE VOICES OF AUTHORITY.

AND IT’S CURIOUS TO NOTE, AGAIN, THAT THE DECLINE IN CHURCH PARTICIPATION REALLY ACCELERATED IN 2009–BECAUSE THAT’S WHEN THE FIRST IPHONE WAS INTRODUCED AND IT WAS ABOUT THE TIME THAT SMARTPHONES BECAME UBIQUITOUS. THE INTERNET MOVED INTO A LOT OF PEOPLE’S POCKETS. AND THAT USHERED IN AN AGE WHEN ALL KINDS OF INFORMATION AND OPINIONS BECAME INSTANTANEOUSLY ACCESSIBLE. 

WE DIDN’T HAVE TO GO HOME AND READ BOOKS TO GET DIFFERING OPINIONS OR INSIGHTS ON WHAT WE WERE TOLD ON SUNDAY MORNING. WE COULD CALL THAT STUFF UP IN REAL TIME.

AND YOU KNOW WHAT WE DID IN THE CHURCH? WE MADE EVERYONE TURN OFF THEIR CELL PHONES. IT WAS A PUNISHABLE OFFENSE TO PULL OUT YOUR CELL PHONE IN ONE OF MY YOUTH GROUPS. IN ANOTHER WE DEVELOPED A LITTLE JINGLE TO SING AS WE INVITED EVERYONE TO TURN OFF THEIR PHONES. 

NOW THE IDEA WAS THAT WE DIDN’T WANT PEOPLE TO BE DISTRACTED FROM WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN OUR TIME AND PLACE… BUT THE SIDE AFFECT WAS THAT WE CUT PEOPLE OFF FROM A STREAM OF INFORMATION, THE INTERNET.

THIS DOESN’T MEAN THAT THE INTERNET IS EVIL. IT’S SIMPLY A REVELATION THAT THE CHURCH–ESPECIALLY THE LESS-FUNDAMENTALIST FORM OF THE CHURCH–HAS BEEN SUPER-SLOW TO ADAPT TO NEW TECHNOLOGIES.

WHILE MORE AND MORE PEOPLE ASSOCIATE DIGITAL TECHNOLOGIES AS PART OF THEIR PERSONAL MEANING MAKING, THE CHURCH HAS BEEN RESISTANT TO INHABITING DIGITAL SPACES. AND IT SEEMS THE MORE PROGRESSIVE IN THEOLOGY ONE GETS, THE MORE CULTURAL RESISTANCE THERE IS TO UTILIZING DIGITAL TECHNOLOGIES.

So here’s an example: ask an AI bot about the Chrisitan view of creation… you’ll likely get an answer that is actually not reflective of a majority of Western Christians. But instead, you’ll get an answer that is much more conservative in its assertions. That is because the AI bot trolls the internet and pulls material–and it’s answer is a reflection that there is a LOT more fundamentalist material out there than progressive material.

IN MUCH OF THE CHURCH WORLD, WE’RE HOLDING ONTO GUTENBERG PRACTICES IN A GOOGLE ERA. WE’RE STILL COUNTING ON BOOKS AND UNBROADCASTED SUNDAY SERMONS AND SYNCHROUNOUS, OFFLINE CLASSES TO DISEMINATE IDEAS AND TO FACILITATE CONNECTIONS AND RELATIONSHIPS. 

IN THE MEANTIME, PEOPLE ARE GAINING A LOT OF INFORMATION FROM TUTORIALS ON YOUTUBE, AND FROM VIDEOS OF TED-STYLE TALKS, AND FROM TAKE-AT-YOUR-OWN PACE CERTIFICATION COURSES, AND FROM ALWAYS ON DISCORD SERVERS AND REDDIT THREADS. 

THE RETORT I OFTEN HEAR IS THAT THOSE PLACES–SPECIFICALLY REDDIT AND THE MAJOR SOCIAL MEDIA SITES–ARE JUST CESSPOOLS OF NEGATIVITY. AND THE NEGATIVITY CAN BE FOUND THERE. BUT FOR MUCH OF OUR SOCIETY THESE SAME SITES ARE WELL-SPRINGS OF VALUABLE INSIGHT AND PLACES WHERE THEY CAN CULTIVATE MEANINGFUL CONNECTIONS WITH OTHER HUMAN BEINGS.

ALRIGHT, THAT WAS OUR FOURTH REASON PEOPLE ARE LEAVING CHURCH: THE INTERNET.

REASON NUMBER 5: WE’VE ENGAGED IN A FAR TOO MUCH COERCION WITHOUT COMPASSION.

REALLY, THIS COMES DOWN TO A CHRISTIAN PERSPECTIVE THAT IT’S OK TO TRY AND LITIGATE SOMEONE ELSE’S BEHAVIOR BECAUSE OF OUR CHRISTIAN BELIEFS. MEANING THAT WE TRY TO MAKE OUR CHRISTIAN BELIEFS INTO LAW EVEN THOUGH MOST OF THE REST OF THE COUNTRY DOESN’T SHARE OUR CHRISTIAN BELIEFS.

YOU COULD ALSO NOTE THAT, OFTEN, CHRISTIANS DON’T AGREE ON WHAT A FAITHFUL PERSPECTIVE OF AN ISSUE IS. 

SO WHEN CHRISTIANS TRY TO LITIGATE BEHAVIORS AROUND ABORTION, FOR EXAMPLE, WITH A JUSTIFICATION THAT IT’S WHAT THEIR FAITH CALLS THEM TO DO… THE REST OF THE COUNTRY DOESN’T UNDERSTAND. IT IS COERCION WITHOUT COMPASSION. AND IT SIMPLY INSPIRES IRE AND RESISTANCE.

REASON NUMBER 6 PEOPLE ARE LEAVING CHURCH IS THE GOSPEL OF SIN AVOIDANCE. 

I’M STEALING THIS PHRASE FROM MY FRIEND. AND I NEED TO UNPACK IT A BIT.

In the Christian world, we’ve lost a vision for what the actual, physical world could be. Instead we’ve turned the Gospel into a means of encountering a paradise after we die.

SO THIS MEANS OUR FAITH SPEAKS PRIMARILY TO FUTURE STATE OF OUR OWN PERSONAL BEING. AND AS SUCH, IT BECOMES A MORAL CODE FOR US TO ENSURE OUR ACHIEVEMENT OF THAT FUTURE PERSONAL REALITY.

WHAT THAT LACKS IS A SENSE OF URGENCY AND VISION RELATING TO WHAT THE ACTUAL, PHYSICAL WORLD COULD AND SHOULD BE… AND HOW THIS PHYSICAL WORLD IS PART OF GOD’S PLAN.

Instead we’ve turned the Gospel into a means of encountering a paradise after we die.

Which, honestly, is not all that inspiring in the here and now.

And when I read the biblical Gospels, I don’t get a sense that this the driving inspiration of Jesus and his contemporaries.

Jesus talked about the Kingdom being established on earth, in the here and now. The idea was to make heaven on earth.

But instead of focusing on the values that inspire the creativity to establish more heaven on earth, the church at large has concentrated on denouncing the negative actions of self.

Meaning we’re more likely to get messages of “here’s how you’re messing up your chances to get to heaven” than we are to get messages that say “here’s how God’s Kingdom is busting onto the scene today.”

This can be really destructive.

The Gospel of Sin Avoidance tends to say to the individual: “You suck… and isn’t it amazing that Jesus loves you anyway?”

Where as there’s something freeing in a Gospel message that says “God loves you because you are an awesome creation, and God’s love is going to take ALL OF HUMANITY to A place of contentment and fulfillment.”

I SUPPOSE REASON NUMBER 7 BUILDS ON REASON 6. IN THE END, THEY’VE FOUND THEIR CHURCH EXPERIENCE TO SIMPLY NOT BE VALUABLE TO DAILY LIVING.

AND THIS CAN SHOW UP THROUGH A NUMBER OF SYMPTOMS.

ONE SYMPTOM IS THAT PEOPLE COMPLAIN THEIR CHURCH DOESN’T TALK ABOUT THE ISSUES. THESE ARE OFTEN CHURCHES WHO TONGUE-TIED BY A FEAR OF UPSETTING SOME PEOPLE IF LEADERSHIP SHARES OPINIONS ON HIGH TOPIC ISSUES. 

AND I GUESS THIS IS A CATCH-22, BECAUSE I’VE BEEN IN THESE CHURCHES. FOR SURE, IF LEADERSHIP EXPRESSED THEMSELVES FULLY, SOME OF THE CONGREGATION WOULD LEAVE. BUT ALSO, SOME OF THE CONGREGATION WAS IN THE PROCESS OF LEAVING BECAUSE THEY DIDN’T HEAR ABOUT ‘REAL WORLD’ ISSUES FROM THE PULPIT. THAT’S A TOUGH ONE.

I RECENTLY OVERHEARD A CONVERSATION ABOUT ADVERTISING, AND HOW THERE’S BEEN A SHIFT FROM ADVERTISING ABOUT FEATURES TO ADVERTISING ABOUT EXPERIENCE. MUCH OF THE CHURCH HAS NOT MADE THAT SHIFT… AND I’M NOT TALKING ABOUT ADVERTISING. I’M REALLY TALKING ABOUT PRACTICE.

SO FOR MUCH OF MY PROFESSIONAL CHURCH CAREER, THE THOUGHT WAS THAT IF YOU WANTED TO ATTRACT AND ENGAGE CERTAIN PEOPLE, YOU NEEDED TO OFFER THE RIGHT FEATURES: LIKE CONTEMPORARY WORSHIP–OR A DIGITAL WORSHIP SERVICE.

PEOPLE TODAY ARE LESS CONCERNED ABOUT THE FEATURES. SO ANOTHER SYMPTOM OF THIS REASON MIGHT SOUND LIKE PEOPLE COMPLAINING THAT THE CHURCH IS INAUTHENTIC.

THE COUNTER, OR REMEDY, TO THIS SYMPTOM MIGHT BE TO FOCUS ON THE EXPERIENCE OF BEING CHURCH AND TO LEAN INTO WHAT CHURCH ESSENTIALLY IS: A GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO SERVE THEIR COMMUNITY TOGETHER, WHO WORSHIP GOD TOGETHER, OR GROW IN UNDERSTANDING OF FAITH TOGETHER. 

I SUPPOSE THIS IS REALLY A MOVE FROM A PROGRAM-FOCUSED MINISTRY TO AN EXPERIENCE-FOCUSED MINISTRY… OR EVEN A PERSON-FOCUSED MINISTRY.

IN THE END, It's important to note that while these are common reasons, many others continue to find deep meaning and satisfaction within the Christian CHURCH. The decision to leave or stay in a religious belief system is a highly personal one, influenced by a range of factors unique to each individual.

If you have any thoughts, questions, or personal experiences you'd like to share, we encourage you to reach out to us through our email: RETHINKCHURCH@UMCOM.ORG. Your stories matter, and your voices deserve to be heard.

MICHELLE MALDONADO WILL BE JOINING US AGAIN SOON. 

If you could use a little more inspiration, then check out our special Faith in Action episode from April of 2023. It’s a story of church in action. Or if you want to hear some good, good news, then check out our episode with Otis Moss III called “linking love and justice.”

While you’re listening leave a rating and/or review.

The Compass Podcast is brought to you by United Methodist Communications. 

We’ll back with a new episode in two weeks… Chat at you then!

Peace!