We’re talking with Christine Valters Paintner about the spiritual significance of fasting and Lent. Christine, the founder of the Online Abbey of the Arts, shares her insights on how fasting can go beyond traditional ideas of abstaining from food and can instead be a way to open ourselves to a deeper encounter with the divine. Christine outlines the various forms of fasting, including from multitasking and inattention, and the practice of fasting from scarcity, speed, and certainty.
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Episode Notes:
Christine Valters Paintner founded the Abbey of the Arts, a virtual monastery offering classes and resources on contemplative practice and creative expression. She is a Benedictine Oblate, poet, writer, spiritual director, retreat facilitator, teacher, and pilgrimage guide. She has authored over 20 books, including her most recent: A Different Kind of Fast.
In this episode:
(00:00) Liturgical seasons offer opportunities for renewal.
(04:29) Online community brings together contemplative practice, creativity.
(08:24) Embrace full presence by fasting from multitasking.
(13:31) Letting go of planning and surrendering control.
(17:39) Finding sacred moments in contemplative walks.
(20:44) Seeking nourishment for a famished heart.
(25:44) Seeking deeper connection to the divine mystery.
(28:37) Intensifying focus, choosing life-giving practices, practicing resurrection.
(31:10) Reflect, share, and explore spiritual practices.
Related episodes
- Disrupt your busy life and cultivate kindness
- Art and your spiritual journey
- Let's get into Lent
- Cultivating everyday spirituality
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This episode posted on February 21, 2024
Episode Transcript:
Ryan Dunn [00:00:01]:
Welcome to Compass, Finding Spirituality in the Everyday. In today's episode, we're talking with Christine Walters Peitner about the spiritual significance of fasting in Lent. Christine is the founder of the online Abbey of the Arts. And in this episode, she shares her insights on how fasting can go beyond our traditional ideas about abstaining from food and the like and can instead be a way to open ourselves to a deeper encounter with the divine. Christine outlines the various forms of fasting including from multitasking, inattention, scarcity, speed, and certainty. What we find is that there is a connection between fasting, contemplative practice, and creativity. And Christine shares her personal experiences and 7 practices from her book that can help listeners engage in meditative practices alongside fasting. It's very cool stuff ahead on Compass.
Ryan Dunn [00:00:57]:
If you find this episode valuable, then spread some gratitude by leaving a rating or review on a platform like Apple Podcasts or the Spotify mobile app. Thanks very much. Let me tell you a bit more about Christine. She founded the Abbey of the Arts, which is a virtual monastery offering classes and resources on contemplative practice and creative expression. We'll get into a deeper description of that in our conversation. Christine is also a Benedictine Oblate, which means that she lives as a monk in the world. Christine is also a poet, writer, spiritual director, retreat facilitators, teacher, and pilgrimage guide. She's authored over 20 books, including her most recent, which is called A Different Kind of Fast, and that helps us enter our our hearts.
Ryan Dunn [00:01:47]:
It kinda strips away old patterns and habits, and we'll get quite into depth on all of that as well. Also wanna note that Christine lives in Galway, Ireland. Really interesting conversation in store, so let's get to it on the Compass podcast. But, Christine, you may win the award for farthest, traveled in a sense to be a part of the Compass podcast. Thank you so much for, for bridging across time zones and and making this work. How goes it with your soul today?
Christine Valters Paintner [00:02:25]:
It's going very well. Yeah. I love I love lent, and I love being in this season. And I find that whole invitation to dig into something even meatier just really yeah. It brings me alive. So
Ryan Dunn [00:02:40]:
That's refreshing to hear because lent carries sort of the heavy connotations along with it. And yet, again and again, I hear people expressing, I I love lent. This is a great season. What what's the appeal for you?
Christine Valters Paintner [00:02:54]:
Well, I think, you know, as human beings, we're always, distracted from our sort of deeper desires and intentions in life. And I think these liturgical seasons, advent also being one that I love, are such beautiful opportunities for us to return you know, that image of returning again with our whole heart or beginning again. You know, I I really believe that, our practice is not about being being perfect all all the time, you know, every day because then we just set ourselves up for failure. And that when we fall away from practice, we're always invited back. And there's almost like a a refreshment or a renewal that comes, you know, when we've been away from something for a little while, and then we deepen into it again, and we're oh, I love this. Like, why did I stop doing this for a while? You know? And it's because I'm human and because life has a way of intervening. And so it's a it's a beautiful way just to call us back to that journey again.
Ryan Dunn [00:03:55]:
Yeah. Well, we're gonna get into some of the aspects of of addressing our deepest longings through the lens of fasting. But but first, I'm just super curious and wanna learn more about your context of of faith community and ministry. So we've had a a series of episodes on the Compass podcast about the fresh and innovative ways that the church kinda moves out into the world. An online abbey is definitely something that fits that bill. So can you tell us what the online Abby of the Arts looks like?
Christine Valters Paintner [00:04:29]:
Yeah. Well, we've been around for almost 18 years now. So, you know, we were, I started, kind of back when, internet stuff was relatively new and I'm grateful, grateful for it because our our Abby basically, invites people who are at that intersection of contemplative practice and creative expression. So people who would identify with what I call, like, the archetype of the monk and the archetype of the artist. And that that intersection, you know, is often a place where, you know, they sort of have a lot of people who feel like the oddballs or the misfits in their communities because they they really are drawn to some of that quiet prayer, but they're also really drawn to that creative expression. So anyway, our our community was set up to sort of meet those needs and then being virtual, we get to we get to find the the monks and artists who are hidden in like South Africa and Australia and the US and Canada. And of course, here in Ireland and the UK and and other places. And essentially, our website has a number of, yeah, a number of programs.
Christine Valters Paintner [00:05:39]:
We have a whole set of prayer cycles that we've created 5 weeks of, morning and evening prayer on different themes. So there's morning and evening prayer, and those are freely available for people. And every day, we send out a newsletter if people want it where they can say, like, pray with us today. Like, this is our morning prayer. This is our evening prayer. So it's a way for us to keep connected. And then, of course, we do have, you know, live online programs where people can meet in real time as well. So, yeah, kind of a combination of each and, of course, the books that I write as well.
Christine Valters Paintner [00:06:11]:
So
Ryan Dunn [00:06:12]:
Yeah. Where do you find a lot of your people are interacting with each other, having conversations with one another?
Christine Valters Paintner [00:06:21]:
Well, some of it's a lot of it's in our retreat forums because our all of our multi week programs there that we have facilitated forums where people have conversations. Some of it happens. We have a Facebook group called the Holy Disorder of Dancing Monks, and some of the conversation happens there as well. So we have a couple different sort of, yeah, platforms for that.
Ryan Dunn [00:06:42]:
Alright. Alright. Well, thanks for that perspective. In this episode, really, we wanna focus on the spiritual practice of of fasting. And a lot of us when we hear that, we're triggered to think that, oh, well, that means I'm giving up food. Right? I'm going without for a certain time. You've written a book that really gives us a broader sense of what fasting can be. Can you tell us about some of the alternative forms or or broader forms of fasting?
Christine Valters Paintner [00:07:12]:
Yeah. Well, I'll start by saying, you know, traditionally, we do think of, you know, giving a meat or giving up chocolate. And I like to say that, you know, Lent is not a second chance at New Year's resolutions, and it's not a chance to have, like, a diet that's spiritually, you know, grounded. Not that there's anything wrong with those things, but, but really the the core of what the fasting is about is about clearing space for that more intimate encounter with the divine in a variety of ways. And so and, you know, multiple religious traditions have have traditions of fasting, and and they go hand in hand with feasting. Right? So the the feasting really only has meaning in partnership with the fasting. Right? We have to kinda have those times of sort of, yeah, clearing things out so that we then we can really make space for for the abundance of of the holy, however that however that manifests in our lives.
Ryan Dunn [00:08:15]:
So how might fasting in this age present an alternative to, some of the ways in which we're distracted?
Christine Valters Paintner [00:08:24]:
Yeah. Well, the one of the ways that I talk about I I talk about 6 different ways in the book, and one of them is, for instance, fasting from multitasking and inattention. And, of course, our attention is drawn, you know, in a 100 different directions every day by, you know, all of the things, doom scrolling online and as well as all the open windows on our computers that, you know, and the little notifications and drives me crazy that, you know, I could get messages in WhatsApp and Facebook Messenger and Instagram and my email and my text messages, and it can be a little bit overwhelming. And and those are things we do have to navigate to be able to live in the world that we live in. And we can also allow this time to be an opportunity to kind of streamline some of that and and pay attention. Like, where so where is my focus and attention going? And is it going to the place that I really want it to? How do I bring that heart of presence to what I love, to the divine, to my relationships? Like, what a rare gift it is to really listen to another person without anticipating what I'm gonna be be saying or without trying to get other things done at the same time. So that idea of all of the fasts are paired with something to embrace. And so the the fasting from the multitasking is embracing this full presence to the moment.
Christine Valters Paintner [00:09:56]:
And we won't we won't be able to do that all day every day, but we can cultivate that practice and that awareness so that we become more in the habit of focus being able to focus on things. And even, you know, in work and computer stuff, I find, you know, if I if I turn off a number of things and I just focus on writing for an hour or 2 hours, like, I get I get everything done still, but I feel I feel less anxious. I feel less, you know, unraveled at the end of it because I haven't my attention hasn't been drawn in so many different directions.
Ryan Dunn [00:10:31]:
I I'm laughing. I I find it a little funny to think about the person who's listening to this podcast who also has the 6 browser windows open and is trying to answer some email while going through this. He was just having that oh, shoot moment.
Christine Valters Paintner [00:10:45]:
We see you.
Ryan Dunn [00:10:46]:
Yeah. Also, though, we feel you.
Christine Valters Paintner [00:10:50]:
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.
Ryan Dunn [00:10:53]:
That that is the the pace of our life. Well, how then can we start to enter into you've given this idea of of just focusing on one thing and and maybe that can act as a form of fast. But are there some practical ways that you've kinda entered into fasting where you do give your attention to maybe the solitary moment or or other aspects of fasting and focus?
Christine Valters Paintner [00:11:18]:
Yeah. Well, in the in the book, there's, basically 7 practices for each week that are to help in their meditative practices. So, like, Lexia Divina, every week, there's a scripture passage that helps us. And, actually, for that week, the scripture passage is, the woman who's anointing Jesus and, you know, the Pharisees or the other disciples who are complaining about the waste of the oil. And Jesus is like, look at what a beautiful thing she's doing because of her full presence to me in this moment. And I think it's such a beautiful invitation to us to to think about. Yeah. When are those times when I give myself over to something so fully and with such devotion.
Christine Valters Paintner [00:12:01]:
So there's Lectio Divina. There's Visio Divina. So there's a there's a piece of art in each chapter that invites us into a visual, reflection. There's a desert story from the desert elders for each, chapter. So and all of those are meant to be, like, both touchstones and anchors as well as sparks for us to to consider then. Yeah. What are the what are the places in my own life that I could that I that I get distracted, that I want to return again to that kind of deep core of longing and desire. The the idea is that we are hungering so much for something, and we're trying to fill that hunger with all of these things that don't actually satisfy us.
Christine Valters Paintner [00:12:54]:
And so the the retreat is about pausing and listening and giving space, and through the practices because they're all meant to be contemplative practices, giving us space to then listen to our own hearts to yeah. What is it what is it that would truly nourish us? And then how do we direct our attention and our awareness in in that way so that we can feel more nourished to be able to go about go about our day.
Ryan Dunn [00:13:24]:
Well, how have you encountered some benefits through practicing fasting?
Christine Valters Paintner [00:13:31]:
Well, I feel like, I feel like the the whole journey of letting go is a lifelong journey, and a lot of it for me is about kind of surrendering my own, need to make things happen. So one of the ones I identify probably the most with is kind of fasting from planning and deadlines because I'm I I am really great at planning, and I and it serves me very well in running an online. Sure. And I'm so I'm not saying that I need to get rid of that, but there's a way in which I tend to live in the future a lot because I'm always kind of anticipating what's coming. I'm always looking at deadlines. I'm always, you know, sort of 10 steps ahead of myself or 2 years out in the planning calendar. And so there's an invitation for me to again, bring my awareness back to myself, but also more importantly, to, to see how I might surrender or yield to that kind of holy longing that's in me that is leading me perhaps in a different direction. So part of the problem might be with planning so much and so far ahead is that then I miss, you know, what the divine desire is in the midst of that.
Christine Valters Paintner [00:14:52]:
And so for me, fasting is largely about continuing to get out of my own way and continuing to surrender and to yield my need to control things or my need to direct the way things are going to unfold and then listen to how that's actually unfolding and ripening within me. And I need space to do that because if I'm always rushing around, like, the planning and the deadlines work really well and they they serve to keep me, like, kind of on that surface level of things. And I get things done. And Mhmm. There is also that deeper invitation to really listen and yeah. And yield. I like that word yield a lot because it's sort of that in that image of softening. How do we soften? And the kind of image of grasping too.
Christine Valters Paintner [00:15:44]:
Like, we spend so much of our time, like, grasping, wanting things wanting to make things happen. Right? We don't live in a culture that's like, let's make it happen. Right?
Ryan Dunn [00:15:54]:
Yeah. You gotta produce. Right? Yeah.
Christine Valters Paintner [00:15:56]:
Right. We gotta produce. Let's set the goals and all of that stuff. And so, again, some of those things can be helpful in the right time. But if that's the way we're operating all the time, then we lose touch with that more organic part of ourselves that's maybe unfolding into something unexpected that we haven't made room for. So the fasting again is about kind of clearing space for that.
Ryan Dunn [00:16:17]:
Yeah. A lot of times it pays to have in a way, something else to fill the space that we're clearing out. Like, I think, okay. So let's say we're at the beginning of Lent and I've decided to give up chocolate. You know? I kinda need something to replace that that fixation. You've lifted up some some contemplative practices. Specifically, you mentioned Lexio Divina. Are there other contemplative practices that help you kinda fill that space to just be present in the moment?
Christine Valters Paintner [00:16:48]:
Yeah. So another practice is breath prayer, which is I love breath prayer because it's so simple. So you you basically have a word or a phrase that you say on the inhale and a word or phrase you say on the exhale. This is an ancient practice that we have, you know, from very, very early church teaching. And what I love about the practice is that well, in the book, I suggest certain phrases, but you can always make your own. So you can you can create whatever breath prayer you want. And so it's if you you can just sit for 5 minutes in the morning and let that prayer carry you into that space of openness and receiving, and then you can return to it during the day. You know, you could set a little chime on your phone, you know, maybe 4 times a day and you pause for a minute and and repeat that breath prayer to yourself.
Christine Valters Paintner [00:17:39]:
So it becomes a little anchor throughout the day to return to and and a little reminder that there's something more waiting for you if you open your heart and pause and let yourself sort of be in that space of openness. There's also the, this contemplative walks are also suggested because I also believe very much in, in engaging the body, in our practice. And so I think our body has an awful lot of wisdom to teach us so much of our modern life is lived in the head. And so contemplative walks are about, yeah, engaging in the body and then being out in the world. You don't even have to go very far, but looking for what is shimmering for you or calling for you in some way, in in connection to the different themes. So there are suggestions for things to look for. But it's really about, again, listening, getting out of your own way, and listening for how the sacred might be speaking through, you know, through a tree or the sunlight on a leaf or, you know, the the neighbor's dog or, you know, whatever it might be. But inviting you then to really pause with that moment and be with it and receive it.
Christine Valters Paintner [00:18:48]:
So it's very much a a practice of instead of taking trying to take something, it's a practice of receiving a gift in that moment.
Ryan Dunn [00:18:57]:
Are all those examples, encounters of shimmering that you've had while on walks?
Christine Valters Paintner [00:19:04]:
Yeah. K. Yes. Yes. So I find, yeah, satellites and, of course, dogs. Yes. I have a big heart for dogs. But an I I find animal, you know, I live in the west of Ireland, and we have lots of rivers and canals.
Christine Valters Paintner [00:19:19]:
So we have herons and we have crows and we have seagulls and all kinds of other birds. And I I find I would like to go for walks early in the morning just when the sun's coming up. And so so there's something about the light that speaks to my heart. There's something about the way the birds appear at different moments that speak to my heart. And if I can pause and just receive that even for a few seconds just to, like, let my attention sort of honor that that gift that's come. You know, that's that is pure gift.
Ryan Dunn [00:19:48]:
Yeah. Do you practice fasting as a community with the Abbey of the Arts?
Christine Valters Paintner [00:19:54]:
Yeah. Well, we, we're moving through the the book together for the season of lent, and we have a, yeah, We have an online journey that we're doing, and I recorded the the meditations all in audio format. So for people who don't wanna just read the book and, you know, read it read the practice, they can listen to me guiding them. For some people, that's that's helpful. And then there's a a forum where people can can talk about that and share what they've discovered. So that's, yeah, that's a rich way for people to connect over that.
Ryan Dunn [00:20:29]:
We have just stepped into it as we're recording this. So you may not have an answer for this, but have you gotten a sense for how some people are are beginning to practice their fast through this Lenten season?
Christine Valters Paintner [00:20:44]:
Well, yeah. That is a we are early on. Unless right now. I guess, Well, when we had our we had our opening session, we prayed the lectio Divina today with Jesus in the wilderness and hungering, you know, and the the word that a lot of people sort of rested on was famished and which I found kind of interesting. And, I think it spoke to my heart at least of that of a real awareness of the way that we are famished for something much richer and meatier and, you know, more nourishing than what we're getting. So I think it's kind of that overall sense of, like, opening our hearts to spirit and saying, you know, show me show me what's nourishing. Show me One of the desert stories that we explore in the book is, do not feed your heart that which does not nourish your heart. And you could say that in the positive, which is, you know, feed your heart that which nourishes it.
Christine Valters Paintner [00:21:50]:
And it is such a simple statement, but it's I think it's goes to the heart of what the fasting is about, which is, pay attention to what you're consuming, whether that's food or whether that's media or whether that's, you know, all kinds of distractions. Pay attention to that and see is that really nourishing to me, and what what might I fill that with instead? Like, well, how might I focus my attention? And part of that is opening the heart and stepping into that space of stillness and silence and listening and engaging with the scriptures and engaging with the desert elders and letting them bring their wisdom to them. Let that let that new insight emerge. So we don't come in knowing necessarily what we're what we're longing for. Right? We just know that we're hungry.
Ryan Dunn [00:22:45]:
And so you may not then come in necessarily anticipating what you're gonna be fasting from either. Is that true?
Christine Valters Paintner [00:22:53]:
Right. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. There's suggestions, you know, for different ways to look at the fasting, but the one that maybe really grabs your heart, you probably won't know until you're in the thick of it. Yeah. And you suddenly realize, oh, this is this is really filling my life with things that aren't that aren't really enriching for me. How might I look at this differently?
Ryan Dunn [00:23:16]:
So would you say then that you've given in the book kind of like a a 7 week taste and see entry into fasting?
Christine Valters Paintner [00:23:27]:
Yeah. That's that's a that's certainly a good way to, to express it. Yeah. Each week has a different invitation. There's the fasting for multitasking, which I, you know, already suggested or already, explored. There's fasting from scarcity, that sort of sense of fear and anxiety we have over, scarcity, fasting from speed and rushing, which of course, is another one in our daily lives that we're, yeah, always trying to get things done and get to the end of things, and fasting from holding it all together. So for those of us who maybe are carrying grief that, you know, we're we're trying to stay strong. And I know we live in a culture again that encourages us to kinda move on and not really, you know, let ourselves fall apart when we have a big loss, whether that's an illness or a loss of a loved one or even loss of a job or a dream.
Christine Valters Paintner [00:24:22]:
So how might we, let go of that need to be the the strong one and hold everything together and create a little space for that vulnerability. And, you know, look to the example, you know, in the scriptures where Jesus weeps, you know, when Lazarus dies, even though he brings him back to life, like, he still makes space for that beautiful expression of grief. And so yeah. And then fasting from certainty is the other one, which I think is a really hard one for a lot of people because we want to be we we want to be in control. We wanna be sure about things. And yet the I think the whole sort of journey of spiritual maturity isn't moving into mis deeper mystery and realizing, you know, that life is about the paradox of holding grief and joy together and not having to reconcile them necessarily, but holding them together and knowing that the the divine, you know, sits with us in that paradox as this as this mystery. And God is always bigger than the definitions that we that we have, the boxes that we create.
Ryan Dunn [00:25:29]:
Do you find in working with the the Abbey of the Arts that that people have a hard time grasping the idea of mystery?
Christine Valters Paintner [00:25:44]:
I think a lot of people are are hungering for that, because I think what what people come to Abby the Arts for in part is because their their images of god have been maybe shattered or broken open or yeah. They've, you know, they realize they've come to the limits of what their sort of image of God sort of can hold and that that God is always so much bigger than that. And so, yeah. There's and and I also find that people who are drawn both to the contemplative path, so people who are drawn into silence and solitude have have naturally, I think, some of that capacity for mystery because silence to me, when we move into the silence, we're really resting into mystery because we're moving into that place beyond words. So we're not trying to necessarily put language to it. Yeah. And then the of course, the artist who I think does express through images and words and movement, but, art has a way of holding again that that tension of, you know, the the sorrow and the and the joy together are different, holds the paradox of life together in a way that's not our kind of rational discourse. And so I think people who are identified with those contemplative and creative paths, are drawn to mystery.
Christine Valters Paintner [00:27:12]:
And, of course, it's challenging because we all want to know what happens. We all wanna know how it turns out. We don't especially if we're in the midst of, like, our life coming undone, and maybe we've been fired from our job or, you know, we've lost a relationship or and me, it's sort of the ultimate I feel like holy Saturday is where we live a lot of our lives in between that death and resurrection space. And we don't know the resurrection's coming in that holy Saturday space. And so, yeah, I'm holding that holding that openness to mystery and how, when we let go of our certainty, how how God might enter in in ways that are bigger than what our minds, you know, can plan for or can try and figure out.
Ryan Dunn [00:28:10]:
Well, as you've mentioned, Lent is useful. I don't know. Purposeful in in drawing our attention to fasting and focusing on that, which which really puts us in connection with the divine. And then, of course, Easter comes, and then it is our time for for feasting and celebration. Do you find it useful, practical? Do you recommend revisiting fasting then through the rest of the year?
Christine Valters Paintner [00:28:37]:
Yeah. I definitely do. I feel like again, I feel like Lent sort of intensifies our focus, and then we can explore these practices and then choose which ones feel most life giving, and then we, you know, weave them into our lives. I often talk about when Easter comes that, you know, we've spent 40 days in the desert in this intense spiritual practice. And then we get to Easter, and we have Easter Sunday. And then we sort of I mean, we I mean, if we're in a liturgical community, we still are celebrating Easter, but I don't know that we have so much of a a set of practices, and that's 50 days, right, until Pentecost. So I talk a lot about what does it mean to practice resurrection? What does it mean to take what's come from our Lenten journey and then let it kinda burst forth into new ways into our into our daily lives, into our Easter journey, and then into our ordinary time journey. So, all of the practices that we do in Lent, I think, are rich and things that we that I know I need to keep working on all the time, but some of them will come more to the fore depending on where I am in my life journey.
Ryan Dunn [00:29:49]:
So I'm curious. Tell us about a a practice of resurrection.
Christine Valters Paintner [00:29:56]:
Well, I think part of it, for me, I'm really struck by the fact that the resurrection narratives are are very embodied. So Jesus comes back and his his body still has the wounds. Right? I I find that to be just remarkable and amazing. And I don't know why we don't talk about that more, you know, to like, to live in the wounded body and to what does it mean to, like, that that body then becomes glorified. And so we have, you know, Thomas touching those wounds and sort of that sense of embodiment, and you have the story of, like, Jesus pulling up the nets with the fish that are overflowing, and you have, you know, even just the story of on the road to Emmaus and sitting down to the meal and they encounter you know, they see Jesus in that, in that encounter. And so for me, practicing resurrection has a lot to do with honoring the body as as the site of our holiest of encounters even with the wounds with the wounds and the pain and even with the pleasure and the joy that it brings. And I think that's where the the fasting and the feasting and holding that paradox together kind of comes in. So yeah.
Ryan Dunn [00:31:10]:
Oh, thank you. Okay, listener. What might you feel called to fast from? You can share some thoughts in the Rethink Church community, which is a Facebook group. Search for it by that name. If this was a helpful episode for you, then you might want to jump into another episode on spiritual practices. A good listen for that would be disrupt your busy life and cultivate a heart of loving kindness with this meditation. That's episode 112, episode 112. If you're artistically inclined, then episode 113 would also be a lot of fun.
Ryan Dunn [00:31:44]:
It's called art and your spiritual journey. And, again, while you're listening, leave a rating in order for you. The Compass podcast is brought to you by United Methodist Communications. We'll be back in a new episode in 2 weeks, so I'll
