We're tackling the topic of living out our faith in a complex and often polarized world. Recently, the outrage sparked by the opening ceremonies of the Paris 2024 Olympics, particularly a controversial scene perceived to mock Leonardo da Vinci's "The Last Supper," has ignited debates and outraged responses.
We'll explore how to express our faith authentically without adding to the division, drawing on examples from the teachings of Jesus, the early Christian community, and even a unique punk rock venue in Berkeley, California. Join us as we discuss how to adopt Christ-centered humility, build bridges, and embody the fruits of the Spirit in our public lives.
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Episode Notes:
The sound clips in this episode were from:
- Whoopi Goldberg on "The View"
- Donald Trump on Fox News
- Candace Cameron-Bure's TikTok channel
- Divine Mercy YouTube channel
- Andrew Tate on YouTube
In this episode:
(00:00) Outrage over extravagant ceremonies, Jesus's message.
(04:19) Podcast on expressing faith in a polarized world.
(11:06) Public displays of faith and its impact.
(13:56) God's love is an irresistible invitation.
(17:34) Seminaries need to prepare for public engagement.
(21:08) Call for grace-filled, justice-minded viewpoint.
(22:50) What's next on Compass
Related episodes
- Cultivating empathy in polarized times
- Shane Claiborne and all life is hope
- Intersection of faith and mental health with Adam Baker and Chrisie Reeves-Pendergrass
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Thank you for listening, downloading, and subscribing.
This episode posted on August 7, 2024
Episode Transcript:
Ryan Dunn [00:00:01]:
Welcome to Compass, Finding Spirituality in the Everyday. And this is a podcast by United Methodist Communications. And it's where we seek to build connections with spiritual seekers through stories and insights revealing God's action in the world today. I'm Ryan Dunn. I wanna wanna thank you for joining me in this episode. We're diving into the topic of living out our faith in a complex world. So with so much polarization and outrage around us, how do we express our faith authentically without adding to that polarization and division.
Whoopi Goldberg [00:00:36]:
Over the weekend, the Olympics kicked off Friday in Paris. Whoo. Alright. But then there was instant controversy over an opening number featuring drag performers that some people said was a blasphemous take on da Vinci's painting, The Last Supper.
Candace Cameron-Bure [00:00:55]:
And see the opening ceremonies completely blast theme and mock the Christian faith with their interpretation of the last supper was disgust.
Donald Trump [00:01:07]:
I thought it was a disgrace. I thought it was, terrible.
Catholic Priest [00:01:10]:
Such mockery is a deliberate attack on Jesus Christ,
Andrew Tate [00:01:14]:
And to sit here and let France mock the country, mock your religion, make fun of every single thing you feel holy. This is the last supper. This is everything holy about Christianity.
Ryan Dunn [00:01:23]:
All these clips have come in reaction to the opening ceremonies of the Olympics presented in Paris, France in 2024. The assumption made by many was that a scene of a number of people, some of them in drag around a long table was a mockery of the last supper scene specifically as it was depicted in Leonardo Da Vinci's famous last supper painting. The retort in what many of us understand is that the scene was really a recreation of a completely different painting depicting a Dionysian party, not the last supper. And, actually, many of us aren't that uncomfortable with the idea of people in drag being seated with Jesus. It's funny to me, about what some people choose to express outrage over. I feel like there are so many more outrageous things happening in the world. For example, we've heard some outrage over the violence being committed in Gaza, but it hasn't felt nearly as loud as this outrage. At least not over the past couple of weeks as the Olympics have been going on and still the outrageous stuff in Gaza continues to happen.
Ryan Dunn [00:02:41]:
Or was there a sense of outrage expressed over the amount of money invested in these opening ceremonies? I mean, they were quite extravagant and I think the old w w j d question, you know, what would Jesus do would challenge us to consider using much of the money differently for sure. The outrage we're hearing again is in relation to a supposed recreation of Leonardo da Vinci's depiction of the last supper. I have to wonder if Jesus and the disciples would have felt any kind of sense of outrage that da Vinci depicted them as a bunch of European guys. Maybe that's outrageous that we've whitewashed the whole Jesus crew, but also even in the midst of the misunderstanding of what the scene represented, what a chance this was to break down some walls instead of really investing in building them higher. My point of view is that Jesus was like the ultimate wall destroyer. The notion of the incarnation, this notion that Jesus is God come to earth as a human to experience that all humanity experiences, that incarnation represents a removal of any wall that would separate humanity from God. This episode though, isn't about explicitly really reacting to the ceremonies or the evangelical outrage after those ceremonies. Instead, I wanted to explore how to express our faith in a way that fosters understanding and connection rather than division.
Ryan Dunn [00:04:19]:
And hopefully, I'm gonna provide a couple examples. This is really about identifying some helpful ways that we express our faith in an age of outrage and polarization. This podcast, the compass podcast itself is for people who feel like spiritual seekers. It's for the people who don't have all the answers, but we're curious about finding out more is for the people who feel like we're on a bit of a journey. I believe a majority of our audience is probably uncomfortable with the supposed, can I quote this Christian response to the opening ceremonies? Because that response reflects a closed off mindset that I don't think our audience values much, probably because in our question asking we would or have found ourselves pushed towards the outside or the margins of faith communities. I think that closed mindset also makes us a little uncomfortable in expressing our own faith in the public forum because we might be lumped in with, you know, the them, the loud voices who are expressing a clear sense of judgmentalism and partisanship. So this episode provides some ideas for bringing our faith to the public forum without perhaps adding some height or some depth to the walls that divide us. I hope that what comes out of this at least.
Ryan Dunn [00:05:53]:
So this is far from a checklist. You're not gonna leave this episode with 5 action steps to undertake in order to be a bridge builder or anything like that. It's more about postures and attitudes and even providing a couple of examples. Now, as I see it, Jesus must have been pretty good at reading an audience. At least in the stories that were given in the gospels, Jesus is a debt at delivering a message for a particular audience. His use of parables, they turned complex teachings into relatable tales. And I'm explicitly thinking of teachings like the parable of the sower, which communicated this deep spiritual truth in familiar terms of the agricultural Jesus was again and again, accessible and relatable. I have to wonder in our current age, when we immediately resort to a default reaction of outrage, who are we actually considering the audience for our outraged responses? Now, some people may say, well, I don't do it for anybody.
Ryan Dunn [00:07:04]:
And for those who are saying that they're not responding to anyone are in particular, then why would you actually offer a public response at all? In the case of the Olympics, I have yet to see an outraged response that was really about building some kind of dialogue with the supposed transgressors. Instead, the audience of those public outrage responses are people who are already inclined to believe or agree with the outrage. So they are those who are behind the proverbial wall already. This public facing response is not meant to be a bridge. It's meant to, gas enclosed or encircle the wagons around the, the faithful community already. Now, maybe this is an opportune time to talk about what sin is in the United Methodist church, that religious tradition that I'm a part of, we're often accused of neglecting sin that like, we just don't preach about it enough. And the assumption goes with this, that we just have this, anything goes attitude and there is no sin or the assumption is made that it's too uncomfortable to talk about sin. So we just kind of sweep it under the rug.
Ryan Dunn [00:08:23]:
I think that those criticisms come from a place of divergent perspectives about sin. Now Jesus ministry certainly brought up sin. It's revealing though, as to what kind of sins Jesus really condemned people for note that the woman caught in adultery. We get this story in John chapter 8. She was not condemned embezzling tax collectors like Matthew and Zacchaeus were not condemned, but those who wanted to gate, keep access to the community of faith, they received the harsh words. They received some condemnation. And in Matthew 23, Jesus really lays it out there. He calls these, these gatekeepers, children of hell, and he calls them blind fools explicitly.
Ryan Dunn [00:09:10]:
He notes that these religious leaders quote, crush people with unbearable religious demands and never lift a finger to ease the burden and quote consistently. Those on the outside were treated with a conciliatory attitude and those on the inside got the harsh stuff when assuming the roles of gatekeepers. So what does this have to do with sin? It would seem that sin is not just a condition of being a rule breaker. So, you know, God said it, therefore we have to do it. And if we don't, then we're breaking the rules and committing sin. Instead, sin is the state in which people are destroying their relationships with one another and with God. That's what I believe in a nutshell. And I'll say it again.
Ryan Dunn [00:09:56]:
Sin is the state in which people are destroying their relationships with one another and with God. And I need to note that I can't speak for the entirety of United Methodism on that. I can offer that this is an acceptable view in United Methodism. And that actually probably needs to be said in a lot of United Methodist theology as a denomination with a pretty open and wide spanning theology. It's hard to say, here's what United Methodist believe without someone else saying, well, that's not what I believe, but we can surely say this is a widely held view in United Methodism. Now my view of sin certainly falls into that category. So someone who is legitimately United Methodist is saying, I disagree with Ryan on that, but also it is an acceptable view in the United Methodist church. Anyways, this relates to how we live out our faith in a complex world, because there's a vein of Christianity that views condemnation of sin as a vital way of living out faith in the public arena.
Ryan Dunn [00:11:06]:
And the harshest example of this would be like the street corner preachers who want to let all passers by know that they're going to hell. A more common example is what we're seeing right now in response to the opening ceremonies of the Olympics, that outrage that is being expressed. Now, the flip side of this public display is to go to an extreme to say that faith is a private matter in one doesn't need to bring their faith into the public sphere. And in some degrees, there's a little bit of wisdom to that. I don't believe it's respectful to others to like throw our faith in their faces. And to others to like throw our faith in their faces. And that might look like being invited to something like a bachelor party at a strip club and responding with a statement like I'm Christian and I don't do that now as a person of conscience and a person of faith. I also don't feel like it's the right thing for me to go to a strict club, but a more compassionate response, maybe to say something like, I can't do something like that without objectifying to performers and that weighs on my conscience.
Ryan Dunn [00:12:13]:
So, that tends to work my mind a little bit. So I'm going to pass on that invite. Now that's not the best example, but it does hint at the way in which faith and conscience inform our public lives. This is this public action. Me not going to that club without faith, being a barrier to our relationships with others, and maybe without a sense of judgmental gatekeeping on that as well. And in this example, faith is a personal thing, but it's affecting public behavior. So yes, faith is personal, but it's also a little bit public. And that's why the incarnation of Jesus is important because it shows publicly a better way.
Ryan Dunn [00:12:59]:
It's a very public display of what God is doing in the world. Jesus revealed the possibilities of a life with God. And on the flip of that, Jesus did not come to inflict a life with God, but instead came to exemplify a life with God. And that example based mindset is something missing in much of the discourse around Christian discourse. And it is certainly missing when we stretch the truth around public events in order to create a sense of outrage. And this again is what has happened around the 2024 Olympics opening ceremonies in Paris. The scene causing the outrage was not, as we've noted, a mockery of the last supper, nor was it even a mockery of Da Vinci's painting. I'm not convinced that a portrayal of the last supper by people in drag would be a mockery of anything.
Ryan Dunn [00:13:56]:
Instead. I think it would be a commentary on the all encompassing love of God, but that's beside the point nor were later scenes in the opening ceremonies like scenes with that mechanized horse at the end, nor was that a mockery of 1 of the riders from revelation rather than a life of faith being inflicted. The life of faith is an invitation. Shane Claiborne, who's a friend of this podcast from back on episode 45. He talks about the irresistible pull of the family of God or the kingdom of God or kingdom of God enacted. And he writes about this ideal extensively in both the irresistible revolution and his book, Jesus for president, noting that wherever we see people being lifted up, people being included and finding joy, There's something inviting to that. We all want to participate in that kind of public action. It's not about coercion.
Ryan Dunn [00:15:02]:
It's 1st and foremost about instead an attitude of humility. What would it look like if Christianity if Christianity's attitude towards the world was marked by Christ centered humility as opposed to a sense of outrage. Augustine said that humility is the beginning of Christian discipleship. There's a lot of wisdom there. It suggests that the beginning of growth on our spiritual journey is to adopt a sense of humility and to stay grounded then in that humility throughout our journey. Outrage on the other hand, while that's not one of the fruits of the spirit, it's something that turns people away. And I think that there are these attitudes that we should concentrate on in terms of living out a faith in a complex world, because these are the attitudes through which life becomes a bit simpler and becomes peace filled. These are the irresistible attitudes.
Ryan Dunn [00:16:00]:
And I think Galatians 5, what we call the fruits of the spirit sums it up very well. Galatians 522 through 23 says this, the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, and self control. There is no law against such things. I love that little aside thrown in the end there. There's no law against such things. And all of us want a piece of that, a piece of kindness, a piece of patience, a piece of self control. That's the irresistible invitation of faith Outrage? Well, not so much. So is outrage ever warranted? Well, Jesus got outraged.
Ryan Dunn [00:16:45]:
So I would have to say yes, Times it is warranted. But again, what outraged Jesus seemed to be acts of exclusion. Those acts that told others that they had no access to the love of God. There's a group in the United Methodist Church called El Plan for Hispanic Latina Ministry. El Plan strives to develop Hispanic slash Latinx leaders in faith communities working as partners, equal partners in decision making in the broader church. In a recent newsletter, Al plan executive director, Reverend Doctor. Lydia Munoz shared what she's learning in participating in another collaborative group with other Hispanic Latino leaders from different denominations. And she wrote this.
Ryan Dunn [00:17:34]:
It's really well put. Quote, what we all acknowledged was that our seminaries and training have prepared us to have conversations inside the church about the church and around the church in the public square, but we've not learned the skills to engage as participants in the conversation in the public square as a partner with the public square, not with a hidden agenda or to gain members, but because we are disciples of Jesus with a sincere concern for the common good of all people. She continues to say, when we read about the church that began to take shape in acts 2, we see a community of faith that didn't know what they were becoming. All they knew was that they had experienced the power of God that convened them together. I mean, together, like all things in common together. That ends her quote. And the characteristics of the acts 2 church that she talks about were a sense of community and commonality. Acts 2 that says that the church at that time held all things in common.
Ryan Dunn [00:18:38]:
They worshiped together almost every day. Many met daily for shared meals and they shared what they had with those in need. I recently had a Instagram conversation with another friend of this podcast, Reverend Adam Baker. Adam was a guest alongside Krissy Reeves, Pendergrass on episode 54 And Adam has just visited 924 Gilman Street in Berkeley, California. And 924 Gilman is a music club, sort of. Now most clubs will hire musical guests, and then they determine the price of entry and how much they paying their musicians. And there'll be primarily responsible for publicity and such, and, you know, therefore make most of the profit on that as well. 924 Gilliaman street, which is also known as the alternative music foundation is a nonprofit collective.
Ryan Dunn [00:19:32]:
The policy decisions of the collective are written up during bimonthly membership meetings. Anybody can show up to those membership meetings. And these membership meetings are at the core of the decision making process, and they've been taking place since the nonprofit's origins in the late 19 eighties. The rules of the club, the rules of 9/24, Gilman, are are pretty simple. They are to be all ages. There's no racism, no sexism, no homophobia it's volunteer run. So there's a very low barrier to entry. And most of the time they just say, show up, show up, and we'll give you a job.
Ryan Dunn [00:20:08]:
There are a few paid positions like the security people, but mostly though it seems the bands determine the details of their show, including how much they charge for admission. Though, the paid staff normally get 10% and then the rest is split between the bands and the venue. It's almost as if they're offering this space location, these resources, the sound system, and inviting bands to come in and make use of it for the building of community in that space. The Gilman community reflects a posture that we seldom utilize in the church. It's one that says we have this resource. How are you going to use it to people outside of the church? That's what they're saying. How are you going to use this resource? I don't see evidence that 9 24 Gilman has ever existed really for just the sake of perpetuating 9 24 Gilman. It exists for the sake of nurturing and empowering a specific community of people.
Ryan Dunn [00:21:08]:
This looks like an example of what Reverend Lydia calls for in her email. So here's where all this comes back to the opening ceremonies of the Olympics. The outraged response suggests a posture of, well, we need to bend the world to our viewpoint or at least make the world sympathetic to our viewpoint. I think the truly biblical response counter to that is one that we witness in the actions of Jesus and of the church in acts. It's one that says, how do we share, grace filled, justice minded viewpoint through our acts of service to our communities? It's a posture that asks, how do we give what we have? And our outrage comes not when the world doesn't get what we're talking about. It comes when we become barriers to our own sharing in the grace and justice of God. All right. So I, I think that's, an affirmative type of action that we can take within the world.
Ryan Dunn [00:22:13]:
And that's kind of cool. And that's my story for this episode of compass. I want to thank you for joining me today. If you found this episode helpful, please check out more episodes of Compass Finding Spirituality in the Everyday. Subscribe, rate, share this podcast with others, follow us on social media through Rethink Church or visit our website, which is umc.org/compass. You can find show notes there and more resources. Also give a listen to the episodes that I mentioned in this particular episode. They're both from much earlier in our compass experience.
Ryan Dunn [00:22:50]:
So it might be kind of a fun sojourn through the evolution of this podcast. And again, those episodes were episode number 45 with Shane Claiborne and episode 54 with Adam bar Baker and a Barker. Adam Baker and Krissi Reeves Pendergrass. That's a wrap here. It's been a pleasure. Again, my name is Ryan Dunn and I'll chat at you again in 2 weeks. Peace.
