Creation care advocate Reverend Caleb Haynes discusses practical spirituality, climate change, and Earthbound Christian living.
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What if the lasting impact of faith was not achieving a life in a heavenly place on some other plane, but in living a way that impacts the flourishing of all of the earth?
This episode of Compass: Finding Spirituality in the Everyday features a walk-and-talk conversation with Rev. Caleb Cray Haynes. While we walk along a Tennessee greenway, we explore the individual's role in environmental stewardship and the connection between faith and environmental advocacy. Listen for some practical steps for environmental impact and the spiritual significance of creation.
Episode Notes:
Caleb Haynes is an advocate on issues of environmental justice for the church at large and co-founder of Nazarenes for Creation Care, an organization designed to equip the church for engaging in the call to “serve and keep” creation. He’s released the book “Earthbound Christian”, which asks the question: what if the flourishing life we are made for is not “out there” but “down here” on Earth?
Learn more about Rev. Caleb Haynes and explore his various projects on his website.
Pick up a copy of his latest book, Earthbound Christian: Flourishing within Limits in the Age of Infinite Growth.
In this episode:
(00:00) Exploring Creation Care
(05:56) Garbage Theology and Environmental Awakening
(12:08) Theological Perspectives on Creation Care
(18:13) Hope and Action for Environmental Change
(24:00) The Connection Between Faith and Environmental Advocacy
(30:01) Drawing Closer to God Through Creation
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This episode posted on April 29, 2026
Episode Transcript:
Ryan Dunn (00:00)
What would change in your life if you decided eternal destiny was bound to the earth? We're going to get deeply theological, environmental, and ultimately practical on this episode of Compass.
Welcome back to Compass, Finding Spirituality in the Everyday. In this episode, we meet Reverend Caleb Haynes. Caleb is a garbage theologian. Just kidding. He wrote a book called Garbage Theology. He's an advocate on issues of environmental justice for the church at large and co-founder of Nazarenes for Creation Care, an organization designed to equip the church for engaging in the call to serve and keep creation. Most recently, Caleb released the book
earthbound Christian which asks the question, what if the flourishing life that we humans are made for is not out there on some other plane, but down here on earth? If conversations like this are helpful for your spiritual journey, we'd be incredibly grateful if you could just take a moment to leave us a rating and review. Your feedback not only helps us improve the show, but it also makes a huge difference in helping more listeners like you find us.
I need to note, Caleb and I live near one another, so we did something kind of novel. We got together in person. And since we were talking about connecting ourselves to the world around us, we chose to host this conversation in the open. So we mic'd up and we took a walk along one of Nashville's greenways. There will be some asides during this conversation as we address what it is that we're looking at. So let's get Earthbound with Caleb Haynes.
here on Compass.
Ryan Dunn (01:50)
Caleb, we're on a journey, so to speak. I appreciate you joining me out here doing something a little bit different on the Compass podcast. We're out on the greenway this morning, kind of doing a walk and talk for our conversation. I feel like ⁓ it's appropriate that we're in this space where people normally come together with nature and talk about some of the ways that we as people can interact responsibly with the natural world around us.
I think it's also kind of appropriate that we're on a journey because I want to learn about your journey a little bit, especially how did you come to the place where you are today being this pastoral advocate for creation care? Like I love a good call story. So what's your story in getting here?
Caleb Haynes (02:39)
Yeah, thanks, Ryan. Yeah, this is a lot of fun. I'm all for getting out, you know, like more podcasts should happen out in the natural world, right? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, you know, it was a bit of a trickle in, I would say like all good things. You know, grew up in a rural part of Tennessee and, you know, and I think spending those years, formative years sort of
roaming in the woods, left to my own devices and gardening with my grandmother and those sort of things. Planted a lot of seeds there ⁓ for love of quote unquote nature, you know, and familiar familiarity that maybe a lot of kids, especially in urban environments don't get. But I would say vocationally, right. So I think that there was always kind of this ecological bent toward my call to ministry that maybe I just didn't have language for earlier on.
And I feel like that's one of the great things that's bubbling to the surfaces in a lot of maybe various denominational efforts is that people are recognizing a little bit more that, hey, God also calls people out to do really cool things for God's creation, which really I would say we're all called to do that, but you know what I mean? yeah, and so for many years I was bivocational.
I'll to say in my younger days, I think I have to start saying that now. In the way of like, I cooperated the trash hauling business with my friend Ryan at church and ⁓ drove with you know, lot of days. So I'm pastoring but I'm also driving around town in this old truck like hauling trash and trying, trying my best to ⁓ do it in a, you know, eco-friendly manner and just getting familiar with the waste system and seeing it all like.
really up close and personal. so wrestling with that, that sort of dichotomy, and ended up writing my first book, which is called Garbage Theology, kind of out of that experience. ⁓ you know, just really realizing the greater issues of consumption and waste, ⁓ you know, and wrestling with that as a people of faith. And so I'm on that that whole journey. And then somewhere within that same timeframe,
I remember back in like 2018, that sort of flagship ⁓ intergovernmental panel on climate change report came out that was like, hey guys, 2030, one and a half degrees, what are we gonna do? And it was just, I mean, if anyone really looked at that or any of those news coverages of that report, it was like, wow, this is serious. And I just remember reading that and just really having Pope Francis would call it like a...
ecological conversion moment. Yeah, but it really was like, I remember just having a fresh sort of time of surrender of like, God, if you want to use me in any of this, like I'm here, I'm up for that. And and so, honestly, since then, it's been more of a roller coaster ⁓ started a grassroots denominational creation care effort called Nazarenes for creation care with a few other people, we did a we did a big
Creation Care Summit in Flint, Michigan at the end of 2019. We got some pastors invited us out there and we did that and and it's just sort of rolled on from there in a variety of ways and efforts into all the other new hats I'm wearing today, but
Ryan Dunn (06:23)
You said that you felt kind of ⁓ a predisposition to some of the environmental concerns, but maybe you didn't have the language for it. Have there been some voices of influence or some educational routes that you've taken to help give you the language for it?
Caleb Haynes (06:42)
Yeah, absolutely. Well, it's one of those things once you begin digging, you find that you're, you know, you're probably not the first person here. And, so, yeah, you know, it didn't take long to discover. Even within the Church of the Nazarene, right, there's some really great folks I learned who had sort of come before me even like 20 years earlier to try to do some of this work and, you know, really great folks like ⁓
Laurie Broughton and his wife Brenda and some other people who were just kind of like in the corners who had just been ⁓ trying to champion this work and had been doing that. so, you know, just standing on their shoulders and then discovering wonderful authors like Norman Weersbaugh, who teaches at Duke and so many others, obviously, you know, ⁓ Wendell Berry and all these wonderful people who have just
been thinking about this for a real long time. It's just that maybe the tradition that I'm from hadn't highlighted these people or these stories. so unearthing that ⁓ later went to do a master's ⁓ with ecology theology with ⁓ Nazarene Theological College in Manchester, UK. And so that was really formative and really great time and and getting ⁓ spending more time with my
my farmer and professor friend Jason Adkins over at Treveca throughout the years and just rubbing elbows with some people who had been thinking about this longer and had some language and then sort of developing my own.
Ryan Dunn (08:23)
The language has brought you to a point where you've become a writer yourself. You mentioned your first book and ⁓ you have a second book. I guess it's your second book. Is that right?
Caleb Haynes (08:32)
Yeah, the only other one is like a small group study that we put together. Yeah.
Ryan Dunn (08:37)
Well,
it's just come out on the cover of Earthbound Christian is a picture of a Nintendo controller. I'm wondering if you can explain for us what's the significance of that.
Caleb Haynes (08:48)
Yeah,
so much there. mean, right. Well, if you grew up in the time that I grew up, ⁓ which is an unnamed mysterious time in the past. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, there's a lot of warm feelings there. And actually, so it's becoming more like a symbol, I feel like. So, you know, I talk about it in the book, like if you played Mario on the regular Nintendo and you died in the game,
Ryan Dunn (08:58)
No, but it's fun.
Caleb Haynes (09:18)
You had to start over. It was infuriating.
Ryan Dunn (09:20)
It's
funny, I've gone back to revisit those games thinking that would be a good idea and then that happens. I'm like, wait, I gotta go all the way back.
Caleb Haynes (09:32)
I feel like it's a millennial confession, but I've I've literally still never beat that OG Mario game and it really bothers me ⁓ But now You know ⁓ It's totally different right and so Any game that you buy now feel like you can just if you die in the game. Mmm, you can just hit that continue button Yeah, and you can actually hit that continue button forever
And I use that as kind of like a symbol of what I call the infinite game. so the infinite game is, yeah, I kind of talk about how that's kind of a lot of what we're culture and just everything that we're swimming in continues to draw us into, I'm going to say playing this game over and over again, trying to say, well, maybe if I hit it again.
Maybe if I do it another round. so underneath that is this, we're always trying to transcend that next limitation or that next barrier in order to achieve fulfillment or ⁓ however you wanna word that. And why this is important because this is underneath here is
a conversation about the kinds of things that have now led us to ecological overshoot, climate change, ocean acidification, back to that sort of over consumption and waste, right? Is this sort of posture of more? so I get into how our economic structure works and ⁓ everything from like, all the ways that we're trying to
continue to overcome our humanity rather than lean into what I would say are this sort of God given limitations and boundaries that are part of God's design. And so sort of wrestling with that of like, look, everything we know and love within creation has boundaries and shapes and colors and right. And so on the other side,
These are the things we're always trying to overcome, We're putting the filters on our Instagram to cover up the thing that we don't like about our face, you know? And we're trying to, ⁓ you know, and so it happens in a myriad of ways, right? We're growing our brand, we're doing all this stuff trying to ⁓ overcome whatever is that hurdle. And we do this a lot through technology, now we're doing it through AI and all these things. And all of these things have
⁓ consequences upon God's creation. so that was a long answer.
Ryan Dunn (12:31)
Yeah. It
sounds like part of what's embedded in there is sort of this ongoing need that we have for instant gratification, I should say that as you're talking about how we have a ⁓ want to just consume more and keep consuming more, like we keep searching after the happiness in the moment. ⁓ part of what you point out is that.
⁓ This isn't all that there is right there's yeah, I don't know if I'm remembering this correctly There's kind of a fine line between the infinite game and the eternal game. Mmm where Yeah, there is there is more I think that there is also a There's some people who would agree with you and that mindset, but then they use it to justify ⁓
Caleb Haynes (13:12)
Right. However,
Ryan Dunn (13:24)
⁓ a disregard for our natural conditions because they're like, we're thinking eternally and God's got it all in control, right? So why do we need to be so concerned with what's happening in the natural world around us in the here and now? Yeah, I'm sure that you've heard those arguments.
Do you have some responses in your back pocket that might invite people to think a little bit more urgently about some of the things that are happening in our environment?
Caleb Haynes (13:59)
Yeah. Oh, man, there's so much there. you know, in the book, I do so, you know, I make a distinction between an infinite posture and an eternal posture. And, as Norma Weir's book points out, like a qualitative versus a quantitative posture. And I think that that's really important to think about. kind of back to, I'll back up and then try to
answer your question in the future. If I can keep it all together in my head while I walk. Lord forbid I chew gum. but so yeah, you know, I think one of the temptations that we've maybe fallen prey to, you know, and I write about this a lot in my first book is, know, the sort of the idea.
Ryan Dunn (14:32)
Yeah
Caleb Haynes (14:55)
or philosophy, or what we would call it, heresy of narcissism, right? And ⁓ that we've over-spiritualized our gospel to the point that only, you know, on paper we wouldn't say this, but very practically and very often within the local church it actually does look this way, which is kind of terrifying to consider, that we have overvalued and almost only valued that of the quote unquote spirit. And so much so,
You know, we spend most of our time talking about inviting Jesus into our hearts, which is great. Do that, right? ⁓ Is that found in the Bible? No, not really. You know, but that's fine. We talk about all sorts of things that aren't found in the Bible. But what does it mean to also talk about inviting Jesus into our hands and our feet and our whole body, maybe into our wallet? All creation. All creation. ⁓
which is reflective of what Paul, and honestly, the whole biblical narrative is getting at, which is the reconciliation of all creation. That our salvation story is not ⁓ anthropocentric. It's not an individual ⁓ salvation. It's a salvation that is about ⁓ the redemption and the reconciliation of everything that is God's. Everything is Lord's.
And so that's all sort of there. And so what does it mean that we don't treat creation or we don't treat our bodies like part of the fall or part of the curse rather than part of the gift? And so I think the temptation is that we treat ourselves as if, or we treat our bodies and this whole life that we're living and all these limitations that we're constantly trying to overcome.
as part of the gift rather than part of the curse and part of God's design in creation, right? Rather than part of what's wrong. And I think biblically there's, you know, there's so much there. We're not talking about murder or, you know, we're not talking about these sort of things. We're talking about like our, you know, gravity, right?
gravity, if we didn't have gravity, if we didn't have this barrier of gravity, ⁓ not only would, I mean, it'd be fun for like two seconds until you're in space and then it's over. Right? It's holding everything together. These limitations pre-packaged within creation are holding everything together and that's good. And I would even say, I would even go far to say like gravity is a reflection of God's love.
These limitations are reflections of God's love in creation. so, ⁓ yeah, there's so much there. think that we've been also victims of, I'm going to say malpractice when it comes to eschatological theories, which is...
Ryan Dunn (18:02)
It to do with the end of all things or the transition of all things.
Caleb Haynes (18:07)
Yeah, yeah. so we've been, you know, and that's probably a whole other podcast around around that. Hey, you want to cut through here? What do think about walking through grass? OK, let's go for it. Let's do it. We're going we're going off road.
Ryan Dunn (18:20)
This is the adventure is really beginning. Yeah. Okay.
Caleb Haynes (18:23)
So back in the day, so where we're walking right now, this, when Nashville has had that 2010 flood and other times, this, flooded. This flooded, there were homes here, they tore them down. These houses flooded, but not as bad. So they came and they said, hey, you can't have houses here anymore. so dot, dot, dot, they planted, think Hands On Nashville planted,
this orchard that you're seeing right in front of you. ⁓ Which I think is a lot of peach trees that I don't think anyone's managing anymore. They're just here. So over here, there was a whole community garden effort by Hands on Nashville at one point that was really cool. And so anyway, it's interesting to see as climate changes, this whole area that we're walking on has changed. And I'm gonna say the nature.
Ryan Dunn (18:58)
Cool, yeah.
Caleb Haynes (19:20)
via climate change has reclaimed all this land. So it's now this sort of untended orchard in this greenway that we're on, which is interesting how we've adapted in this way. But yeah, so actually there's some probably really rich soil and stuff because they were, that's kind of where they're working over there.
Ryan Dunn (19:36)
I mean, as we're through this space and talking about climate change, I mean, here's this huge macro change that's going on. And certainly it seems like the to change something like that needs macro changes, which a lot of us as individuals feel kind of powerless to enact. And I appreciate that, like right in the beginning of your book,
you give a nod to just how difficult it is to ⁓ really live in a way that does not harm the environment. ⁓ And then it's near impossible in terms of our current culture to do so. ⁓ So I'm wondering if you can speak a little bit to, well, ⁓ provide us some hope in not just giving up and being like, well, we need the governments and the corporations to change in order for anything to happen. ⁓
Like what is our call as individual people of faith or individual people in general to enact some change or to hold back from harming the environment more in our own lives as individuals?
Caleb Haynes (20:43)
Yeah, it is. ⁓ Yeah, I actually one of my favorite chapters is the opening chapter because I try to go out of my way to name the absurdity of it all. And I and I think one of the first stories I tell is like, ⁓ Emily and I are literally on a flight. Right. So so what I don't say in the book, the subtext is you're you're flying, right, which is you've already like already made the worst decision.
Ryan Dunn (21:10)
There's
a carbon footprint there.
Caleb Haynes (21:13)
⁓ and ⁓
Ryan Dunn (21:26)
We're
walking now, but we drove here.
Caleb Haynes (21:29)
Yeah, let's not pretend. Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah, but but the story is that she's having this sort of ⁓ conflict with the ⁓ the airplane steward person ⁓ around is this can recyclable or not? Are you going to recycle this can? Yeah. And you can tell the ladies like, probably lying about it. She's just like, give me the camera.
Ryan Dunn (21:56)
You know, course, of course. Please,
like, take care of your can.
Caleb Haynes (22:00)
Yeah, yeah. Anyway, but we're flying. And ⁓ that's kind of what it feels like. The whole thing is just a myriad of decisions. And the thing with eco-friendly choices is that you may not ever observe the difference that you're making ⁓ in real tangible ways. Now, that's not true across the board.
You know, I planted a pollinator garden at, you know, Glencliff Church last year. Me and some others last spring. And by the end of the summer, there were butterflies everywhere. Right. That's that's real visible change. Right. There there were not pollinators here before. There are now. And they're already it's already coming back to this season, like with nothing, you know, and so and so. But but.
Ryan Dunn (22:56)
With no curation, you mean.
Caleb Haynes (22:57)
Right
with low suretious. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's coming back. That's right. Nature's doing its thing. Nature's doing its thing. But if you're, you know, recycling or even advocating or like you may not always see whatever, you know, you're not going to see any carbon footprint you're drawing down quite often, you know, it's like, and so I think that's a bit of the struggle and a lot of people do suffer from
grief and anxiety over all of this and eco trauma. And that's also something that we've got to talk about as a church. ⁓ yeah, you know, I say all the time though that, you know, every choice that we make does matter. If you throw a pebble into the water, ripples come out. That's literally baked within God's design for creation. And you can see how back to the pollinators, like you plant seeds, things grow. That's how it works.
one seed, if you crack open, if you get a pepper, crack open a pepper, that pepper has like 50 seeds in that one pepper that then you plant and each seed theoretically becomes more peppers with more seeds. so, ⁓ and not to just gaslight your question because I do think that there is, big corporations need to make big decisions.
But we drastically undervalue, think, these ecological kingdom seeds and get really self-defeating. mean, there's a reason. Like every three parables, Jesus is talking about seeds, seems like, you know, and and and that's that's all part of I think what Jesus is, I think, still trying to get us to catch today with this with everything going on with the environment, like plant the seeds, plant the seeds.
And there's so many, like, maybe they're on the path, maybe they're over there, but scatter them, you know? ⁓ And because everyone that grows produces, you know, like, has that opportunity. But it won't if we don't ever plant them. so, sorry, I feel like this is an oversimplification of a really tough thing, but I find myself here a lot.
really encouraging folks that, you know, I mean, that is that's all over the gospel, right? I mean, the the little things, the last shall be first. The meek will inherit the earth. mean, our gospel is a gospel of being faithful in the little things. And and I think that's really the sauce as well with with, ⁓ you know, sure. Talk to your colleague, call your congressperson. Yeah. Yeah. No, like.
show up, sign those petitions, like you gotta do it. ⁓ But again, like do the little things too, like and do just whatever's before you and don't let perfection become the enemy of the good.
Ryan Dunn (26:07)
What has this work taught you about people?
Caleb Haynes (26:12)
Yeah. I like people.
Ryan Dunn (26:20)
funny that we laugh at that. Like, that's refreshing to hear in this day and age. Like, sometimes I do too.
Caleb Haynes (26:24)
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. And I mean, it's kind of joking, but I think maybe that's underneath a lot of how this is broken back to the whole, you know, back to the whole thing we're talking about earlier of like, ⁓ I think too often, some of what's underneath here is that people haven't been told like, like, they're forgiven, like,
they're created in the image of God. They belong, like you belong here. And here ⁓ on earth, we're on earth because God wants us on earth. We are of earth created here on purpose. None of this is accident, none of this is a waiting room. ⁓ This is all part of the story and we're supposed to be here. ⁓ And so ⁓ that sense of like you matter,
you belong and that's all baked into the ways that we encounter each other and our relationships with God's creation. so ⁓ on a different way, you wanna go this? Yeah. On sort of the other part of that question, I think that...
⁓ You know, this is one of those things that Catherine, climate scientist Catherine Hayhoe talks about all the time, which is, you know, the need to talk about climate change and talk about environmental issues. And what we find there is that it's not that folks are generally disinterested or don't believe that all this is going on.
They're just not talking about it. And there's sort of a collective silence that ⁓ we're just unsure about or feel unequipped maybe about talking about these things. And that's why I think these kinds of conversations are so important of just like, guys, we've got to normalize these kinds of conversations, especially within the church, if we're gonna go anywhere. I just think often we feel in equipped to.
to do it or we're not sure how it's connecting with our own lives. And so, you know, I'm always inviting people to get more curious, right? What's something that you love? You know, chocolate, coffee, soccer, dogs, whatever it is, you know, like ⁓ dig into it. Like all these things are being affected right now through our environmental choices and climate change and all these other things, ⁓ you know.
where, you know, it's like.
Ryan Dunn (29:09)
Sorry, we're just walking past a huge pile of
Caleb Haynes (29:12)
Yeah, yeah under a bridge by a river Yeah, so this whole area we're on now. We did several cleanups So this bridge and this Creek Mill Creek floods like a pro. I feel like every other year. Yeah
Ryan Dunn (29:27)
I think what we're looking at...
Caleb Haynes (29:29)
Yeah, that was a dumb situation. Yeah, that was a dumb situation. But the last big flood, this was just, I don't know if you came down here, but ⁓ there were just trash, there were plastic bags hanging from the trees. there were, ⁓ so there's a upstream, a single use product company. And so ⁓ we just kept finding just droves of package, still in the package, paper plates and cups and forks and all that.
and we cleaned up for weeks over here and like straws. Anyway, it was just a hot mess and it's cool now though. I mean, you can see how, I mean, a lot of that trash is probably deeper than the earth, but we got a lot out and others did too. And anyway, it looks pretty good. ⁓ anyway, it's a sort of test to like, that's sort of the other thing. Like the earth is so resilient and regenerative.
if we can afford it to give it a little bit of opportunity for that. ⁓ you know, like just a little bit of stewardship goes a long way. And I think that's what's really encouraging about this kind of work. ⁓ But yeah, I think ⁓ I think as far as like your people question. Yeah, I think what's what's lacking there is maybe just a little bit more of ⁓ uncovering.
Ryan Dunn (30:31)
Yeah.
Caleb Haynes (30:56)
a little more in the Greek, you might say apocalyptic work, you know, like, literally, it just means like revelation to uncover something. And I think that the kingdom of heaven is about a lot of that. You know, Jesus always talking about everything will be brought into the light, you know, and I think, yeah, I think, yeah, maybe that's maybe that's some of the work before us.
Ryan Dunn (31:18)
What has this work been teaching you about God?
Or maybe another way to think of it is, how do you feel yourself drawing closer to God through this work?
Caleb Haynes (31:28)
Yeah, ⁓ that's a great question. Yeah, I...
you know, I feel like one of the gifts of, you know, I do my own podcast and other things and I get to talk to some really cool people and scientists and oceanographers and things, which is, you know, not my department. And you just the more we learn about God's creation. I mean. Wow, you know, it's like.
It's so good. was just talking ⁓ with this oceanographer about what we turn up like plankton. It's like and how colorful they are and how beautiful they are, you know, but you're never going to like you. We just cannot see this like you have to have like a microscope to see it. Right. You know, like it's there for the glory of God. And, ⁓ you know, it's not about us. And, you know, and I think that's
that's part of the gift of drawing into, I'm gonna say our God designed close relationship with creation that many of our indigenous ancestors, they, this was more the way of life for them. Like they were living closer to the land. And I think that there's opportunity there for connection with God.
⁓ that maybe we were sacrificing today at the altars of our comforts, know, ⁓ that, you know, a lot of people would call creation or nature, you know, that sort of like, maybe quote unquote, that first incarnation or something of like the way that we come to know more about God. And I think that that's been kind of a gift around like,
drawing close to God in this work is ⁓ back to how creation is so generous. And I think that we see a lot of God's grace and love and generosity through creation. And that's something that has been worth marinating on quite a bit. ⁓ And God's handiwork ⁓ through creation at large.
Yeah, and there's so much there and we sort of turn the gem and we realize that loving our neighbors has everything to do with our neighbors having access to healthy creation. There's no such thing like we need water. We need clean water to live. We need clean air to breathe. We need good soil to grow food in. These are the three areas.
right? ⁓ The land, you know, these are three areas in the first page of the Bible that God creates, and then God creates humanity, and then God says, okay, take care of these three areas, right? All that's within the first chapter of the Bible. And so, you know, somehow that's become a huge disconnect for us. And so, yeah, I guess going for a full circle there, but yeah.
Ryan Dunn (35:03)
Well, final question for you, and it's probably one that you get ⁓ asked to the point of it being a little bit obnoxious, but what is maybe one or two things that an individual can undertake today that might help with some of the issues that we're facing? ⁓
Caleb Haynes (35:20)
⁓
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I you know, you could, you know, we could name off a lot of things and there's a there's a lot of ⁓
There's a lot here, you can swing back this way. ⁓ I think there's a lot of misunderstanding too around what connects to what and what's helpful for what.
I recently saw a report and it said, it was like they did this huge survey. And one of the findings was that most Americans believed that recycling, whether you recycled or didn't recycle had a direct impact on climate change. I have to laugh because, you
Ryan Dunn (36:16)
It could be further up.
Caleb Haynes (36:17)
that? Yeah, I was most Americans do believe that recycling impacts climate change. Okay. Because when we think about caring for the earth, we think about recycling. ⁓ Because it's it's just, it's baked in there. And I think, you know, recycling is great, if you can do it, and you know how to do it, do it. But it has almost zero bearing on climate change, you know. And but yeah, anyway, that's just an example of like, I think them.
misinformation and how we just don't know what to do. And I think it is helpful to talk about simple things like that, you know, and so depending on where a listener might be at or what they're ready for, you know, and I think it can be get very contextual and, and I like to tell people, find find that, you know, maybe if you're starting out, find that one little on ramp of maybe it has to do with, ⁓ you know, supporting something that you're already do you're already interested in the already love or
your Enneagram number or whatever your on-ramp needs to be ⁓ and just start there and start forming one habit. And so maybe ⁓ that's hang drying your laundry, right? So for years and years, and we even ran an Airbnb, but we didn't have a dryer. And we had people trying to give us a dryer and we're like, actually, you know, we like not having a dryer because it's our choice. And ⁓ you know, and so...
we hang our stuff outside or on these racks and it dramatically lowers our carbon footprint and it dramatically lowers our electric bill. And so many things are like that, right? Especially when we're talking about energy use and that sort of thing. ⁓ And so there's so many different things we can do. Obviously ⁓ issues around waste and reducing that footprint is very important. ⁓
I'd say composting is one of the best things that you can do for individual impact. When you throw food in the trash, that food, when it goes in the trash and in the landfill, it becomes methane. It becomes a greenhouse gas. And tons of our landfills are filled with food. And so it's like 60 % of what's in the landfill. And so I'm all just cooking and becoming methane.
When by God's design, that is supposed to just be compost. It's supposed to be turned back into something that is actually life giving, that builds top soil, that grows our food. And so it's just such a no brainer to look into composting, you know, and if you don't live in a place where you can do that. ⁓ And I, you know, I try to demystify that a lot. It's not as complicated as people make it sound, but there's companies that don't even pick up your compost. Anyway, that's a whole thing.
But similarly, I'll say one more thing is what we eat. Like we vote for the kind of world we want to live in through our meals. you know, we eat three times a day. Yeah. Or if you're like me, you eat all the time. You know, so, you know.
Ryan Dunn (39:28)
For me, I got a snack every few.
Caleb Haynes (39:30)
You
eat a few times a day, I eat constantly. But every snack is a choice, right? And it really does matter because you're advocating for a certain kind of agriculture, a certain kind of relationship with the land, a certain company ⁓ that we would say, well, this is a good company. And again, this goes back to like, you gotta do research and stuff. But honestly, the one biggest difference I'll say, and this is where it gets hard.
And I know people are gonna hang up the phone when I say this, but eat less meat. ⁓ I mean, especially less beef. And that's actually, if you switch from just beef to beans, man, you like your footprint and your impact on God's creation is like heavy handed good. ⁓ Because so much of our resources go into producing beef. I mean, if you took a,
If ⁓ you took a shower for 20 hours, that's how much water goes into creating one hamburger. I mean, there's so much resources. mean, most of the food we're growing in the Western United States is not for our consumption, but so we can feed our cows. And so there's so much there. But so just thinking about, and even if that's like only eating meat, maybe a radical shift is once a day for you. I don't know.
once a week, ⁓ any little increment matters. ⁓ You know what I'm saying? And so I think there's so many things like that. again, I think those can be challenging depending on what you're ready for. And I think underneath this, kind of going back to what we talking about earlier with the book and what I try to get at a lot with Earthbound Christian is, you know, it's gonna force you to slow down.
⁓ You know, it's going to challenge you like if you got a hang dry your laundry that's gonna take some time Right, or if you want to walk somewhere that's gonna take some yeah And so there are values that when we sort of try to lean in Try to build those muscles again to lean into some of our limitations Yeah, it's gonna feel different but I think you'll be surprised along the way what you'll notice and and how much creation is designed to
not only flourish in our slowing down, but also give us life.
Ryan Dunn (42:01)
Well, I want to thank you first for the physical and mental exercises here. This has been good. Your book is Earthbound Christian. Podcast is the Echo Christian podcast. It's available everywhere, right? Yep. And for folks who want to learn more about your work, where might they look you up?
Caleb Haynes (42:19)
Yeah, you can go to my website, CalebCrayHaynes.com. ⁓ Same with Instagram and all those things. So, at CalebCrayHaines. So, yeah, man.
Ryan Dunn (42:32)
What are you taking away from this conversation? Are you ready to eat less meat? If you want more ideas on how to take action today, head over to our website at umc.org slash compass, where you'll find episode notes and plenty of other episodes to explore as well. Thanks for taking this actual journey with us. We also want to extend a special thank you to the team at United Methodist Communications for making this podcast possible. If you haven't already, please take a moment to subscribe.
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