What makes issues like immigration, equity, inclusion, and societal violence spiritual matters—not just political ones? In this episode of Compass: Finding Spirituality in the Everyday, host Ryan Dunn sits down with Bishop Julius Trimble, General Secretary of the United Methodist Church's General Board of Church and Society, to explore the vibrant connection between justice work and spiritual life.
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Bishop Trimble shares his journey from Chicago’s South Side to advocating for social change on Capitol Hill, reflecting on how United Methodist roots—and personal encounters with beloved community—shaped his commitment to issues like healthcare, racial equity, and creation care. The conversation delves into how faith communities can move beyond "water-based theology" and "cheap grace" to embody real love and meaningful action.
About our guest:
Bishop Julius Trimble (he/him) is the General Secretary of the United Methodist Church's General Board of Church and Society. Raised in Chicago and deeply influenced by the civil rights movement and the legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., Bishop Trimble has dedicated his life to advocating for justice, compassion, and the inclusion of all people as sacred worth. He is a recognized leader in both the church and broader society, passionate about equipping individuals and faith communities to live out a transformative, justice-driven spirituality.
Episode Notes:
Be sure to check out "Don't Invite Me to Preach", the open letter from Bishop Trimble which kicked off this conversation.
Bishop Trimble also hosts a podcast, "Justice Takes Courage".
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- How advocacy becomes ministry [166]
- From hate to hope [139]
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This episode posted on December 3, 2025
Episode Transcript:
Ryan Dunn [00:00:00]:
What makes issues like immigration, equity, inclusion and societal violence spiritual matters and not just political ones? We're talking with Bishop Julius Trimble about this and much more on compass. Finding Spirituality in the Everyday. And welcome back to compass. I'm Ryan Dunn. I got to sit down with Bishop Julius Trimble, who is the General Secretary of of the United Methodist Church's General Board of Church and Society. And we explored what it means to live out faith in pursuit of justice, compassion and beloved community. Bishop Trimble shares his journey from growing up on Chicago south side to advocating for social causes on Capitol Hill while reflecting on the roots of social justice work in our Methodist tradition and within his own life along the way. In this conversation you're going to hear about the United Methodist Church's commitment to issues like health care, racial equity and creation care, as well as how faith communities can move beyond what Bishop Trimble calls water based theology and cheap grace to actually embody real love and action.
Ryan Dunn [00:01:16]:
The conversation touches on practical ways to put spirituality into daily practice. We touch on the importance of listening on self care and having bold conversations that really lead to positive change. Whether you're steeped in their Methodist tradition or if you're just curious about the connection between faith and public life, I think this episode invites you to consider how loving boldly and serving joyfully can lead to a more just and compassionate world. So let's jump into that conversation with Bishop Julius Trimble and here on compass.
Ryan Dunn [00:01:54]:
Bishop Trimble, thank you so much for taking the time this morning. I hope it's going well with your soul today.
Bishop Julius Trimble [00:02:00]:
Thank you, Ryan. It is well with my soul. The sun is shining. It's a chilly day in Washington, D.C. but God is still good, even in.
Ryan Dunn [00:02:11]:
Washington, D.C. i want to start with an umbrella question because I'm not sure that a lot of our listeners are going to be overly familiar with the work of the United Methodist Church's General Board of Church and Society. Can you give us maybe a little bit more than an elaborate than an elevator description, but a synopsis of what the work of the General Board of Church and Society is?
Bishop Julius Trimble [00:02:37]:
Certainly, Ryan. The General Board of Church and Society is the social justice and public witness agency of the United Methodist Church, the GBCs, as we say be abbreviated, the General Board of Church and Society. We attempt to equip people of faith to live out the Church's social principles as well as to engage in faithful advocacy for peace, for justice, for liberation. We've been mandated by the United Methodist Church General Conference and by the United Methodist Church's Constitution to make plain our commitment to treat all people of sacred worth, to embrace inclusiveness and racial justice. And we do this, Ryan, as part of the Church universal one body of Christ. We acknowledge that not only are all persons of sacred worth, but that we should be about the business of making the world more just, more fair, more equitable, particularly for the communities where we find United Methodist churches. The United Methodist Church building is located in Washington D.C. on Capitol Hill.
Bishop Julius Trimble [00:03:50]:
In fact, it's the only non governmental building on Capitol Hill, right across the street from the Supreme Court and facing the U.S. capitol building. And it has been here actually longer than the Supreme Court. The building is over 100 years old. So United Methodists have been committed and the predecessor bodies of United Methodists to social justice. And we trace that all the way back to John Wesley, who had a commitment to being in ministry with the poor and, and objecting slavery.
Ryan Dunn [00:04:22]:
What led you to do this work?
Bishop Julius Trimble [00:04:25]:
Well, Ryan, I had a, I had an impactful experience in 1985. I was a still a young pastor serving my first full time appointed church out of seminary. And I was invited to a United Methodist seminar program sponsored by the General Board of Church and Society. We met in New York City at the United Nations Church Building, which is across the street from the United nations building that's owned by the former United Methodist Women, now United Women in Faith. But we have General Board of Churches Society offices in that building as well. I was invited to a seminar, an educational program for, for pastors and laypersons as well. And the focus at that time in 1985 was understanding apartheid in South Africa. And then I left there with the inspiration.
Bishop Julius Trimble [00:05:25]:
I remember telling my wife this. I said I wasn't aware that the United Methodist Church was engaged not only in supporting missionaries, but also supporting the mission of making the world a better place in the area of peace and justice in the way in which we were doing so I left a full fledged fan and supporter of the work of church and society.
Ryan Dunn [00:05:49]:
Okay, all right. And can you explain a little bit about why this, this work is so. I don't know if appealing is the right word, but maybe why you feel driven or called into a position like this?
Bishop Julius Trimble [00:06:03]:
Well, I always, I think early on in my seminary training, I grew up in the City of Chicago neighborhood on the south side of Chicago. And my parents, who were both Methodists before they got married, they wanted to go to the closest Methodist church you could walk to with six children. So I'm walking with six children. So we went to, at that time was A Methodist Episcopal church. And the church pretty much spent my childhood and high school years, and when I left and went off to college, was very active in the area of social justice. In fact, as a preteen and a teen, when I, in my teen years, actually I was 13 years old, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Spoke at our local congregation in Chicago.
Bishop Julius Trimble [00:06:54]:
And I was inspired then by realizing, you mean the church is not just about getting, getting ready to go to heaven, you know, trying to live a spiritual life. It's also about making our communities better, more, just more equitable. And so I was in, I was influenced very much by the church I was in. So throughout my ministry as a pastor and even before becoming a pastor, as a layperson and then a pastor, I've always been committed to not only that, what I consider the spiritual side of our being, but also the social side of our being, of how do we build better, more healthy Orion communities that we can actually all flourish in. And so that, that really, that really has attracted me to the work of the, of church and society. Later in ministry. I was invited when I became a district superintendent, to become a board member on the general board of Church and Society. And so I served on the board of Church and Society for eight years and had opportunity to see close up the work that was being done to advocate for peace and justice, not only in the United States, but really across the globe.
Ryan Dunn [00:08:14]:
It's clear from your story there that the ministry of social justice has been a part of your, I guess, ministerial journey or even spiritual journey. I'm curious, was the term social justice used as, as you were growing up, or was it so intrinsic in kind of your practice of faith that like this just was the spiritual journey?
Bishop Julius Trimble [00:08:40]:
Well, you know, that's interesting, it. The word social justice. I don't recall that. It seems like a term that I've embraced even post seminary, but I think the term really was. Even now, even though it's come back around, the term really was around beloved community. I remember my pastor and our church really focusing on what does an inclusive community look like? So even early on, our congregation embraced persons who were part of the gay community at that time, considered the gay community, and also persons, persons who had, who, who had been marginalized from their families because maybe addictions or, or because of, you know, dealing with poverty. So I found that the notion of beloved community was something I was introduced to before I even remember the term social justice being introduced. And so I think, I think they're, they're, they're obviously connected, but that was my early entree into the work of social justice and not seeing.
Bishop Julius Trimble [00:09:54]:
I had a pastor who was very adamant about not disconnecting the two of the spiritual life and also the life of social witness.
Ryan Dunn [00:10:09]:
Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. I was asking that question about that terminology of social justice. Because you've released a letter recently. You seem to be in a practice of. Of sending out some letters from time to time. Pastoral letters for the. The body of believers. In one of your most recent ones, you noted that if a church doesn't want you to speak about issues that may lie under the.
Ryan Dunn [00:10:38]:
The overarching banner of social justice. So these would be issues like immigration or equity and inclusion or speaking about societal violence, then. Then maybe they shouldn't invite you to. So for someone who is a little bit unfamiliar with some of these social teachings, maybe didn't have the background where it was so intrinsic to their faith journey. Can you talk a little bit or explain a little bit about why these issues matter to a spiritual life and not just a political life?
Bishop Julius Trimble [00:11:13]:
Yeah. Yes. I think the spiritual life is really rooted into honoring the stories of all of our stories. And so most of us who are longtime church folks, we've been embedded in the biblical story or biblical stories, but our story should also be able to be wed and be honored alongside of the biblical stories. And I think that a lot of most people want to be heard. They want to be loved, they want to be respected. Even before they want to know what your religious or theological perspective is, I think people really would just want to know, do they matter? It's been said that people want to know that you care before they care how much you know. And, you know, I believe that, you know, the Bible is really helpful in that sense.
Bishop Julius Trimble [00:12:06]:
You know, the book of James, second chapter, talks about, you know, faith without works is dead. I'm paraphrasing a little bit, but James 2 says, you know, when someone is hungry or naked, you cannot help them by telling them, go, go, and the peace of the Lord be with you if someone is hungry or naked or if someone is depressed. Ryan, if someone is dealing with depression or the sense of the lack of belonging, I don't think it does them well for us to say. To quote scriptures and just say, go in peace. The Lord peace of the Lord be with you. They want to know that we care. And I think that's part of when I say. When I say, don't invite me to preach.
Bishop Julius Trimble [00:12:49]:
I'm purposely being provocative in the sense that sometimes people want you to preach. But not to mention the fact that people are actually hurting. I'll just be a little bit vulnerable here and say I had family members who were impacted when the government was shut down because they weren't getting paid. Yeah. So when people aren't getting paid, they can't pay their bills, they can't buy their groceries. And so should I be afraid to address that issue, that this is an issue of injustice from the pulpit when I know that people in the congregations are impacted by that? So I was intentionally being provocative and don't invite me to preach. I. I am.
Bishop Julius Trimble [00:13:34]:
Because the Bible says you can't say that you love God whom you have not seen, and yet you refuse to love your neighbors whom you see every day. And I think that's a pivotal teaching when Jesus says, you know, let's not get this confused. Maybe you don't go to church. Maybe you. Maybe you don't have a personal relationship with Christ. But there's two commandments you can remember. Love God, love your neighbor. And I think even people who aren't part of the United Methodist Church or any church, they can resonate with that.
Bishop Julius Trimble [00:14:07]:
They can say, I believe there is a God and I know I have neighbors. So how do we serve as a bridge to connect people with that, the love of God and the love of our neighbors in the sense that there is an opportunity for belonging when the church is. When the church embraces, in fact. So when I say social justice, I don't divorce it from love or love. In fact, many have said. Many have said that justice is really love spoken out loud in the public square. So people say, well, you just. No, I'm not being political at all.
Bishop Julius Trimble [00:14:47]:
I'm not endorsing that pastors should work on drafting political sermons. I'm saying that we have to remember that we're preaching to people who have real problems, who are living in a real society. That often is expressed and most recently has been expressed as being somewhat oppressive to certain parts of the population. So it would be hard to speak to a population that's dealing with the reality of ICE raids and, and families being detained and deported and just talk about getting to heaven when you might be concerned about whether your father or your mother is going to be separated from your family. So I'm really encouraging, encouraging our churches to embrace what we, as a denomination have said are important. We attempt to bring the vision of life by educating, advocating, connecting United Methodists to upholding living faith and seeking justice. And we do that by talking about all kinds of Things, creation, care, food security, reduction of gun violence, welcoming our neighbors, building bridges to collaboration, global cooperation on addressing problems. So I think Jesus, I say this in the article.
Bishop Julius Trimble [00:16:20]:
Jesus was the Jesus who was unambiguous about rejecting violence, loving your neighbors and enemies and doing good, and embracing the work of peacemaking. So that's the gospel that we embrace. The Jesus who promoted mending the broken relationships and said that the two greatest commandments are not to be separate, separated or segregated. That is the love of God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself. People want to hear that message, right? That. You mean I. I have to even love myself? A lot of. A lot of that missing today.
Ryan Dunn [00:17:01]:
Yeah. Oh, that's good. I want to put a little context around this because we're recording this in mid November 2025. The. We've gone through a government shutdown in the United States in the process of reopening. Are there a couple initiatives right now that the General Board of Church and Society is working on where you're particularly, I guess, focused on maybe inviting members of the United Methodist Church to get involved?
Bishop Julius Trimble [00:17:30]:
Yes, we believe that at the local level and that United Methodists should be involved, whether it's your local school board or whatever the issues that are involved in your local communities as well as the general level as well. I mean, the national level. For example, we encourage United Methodists to take action by contacting the congressional representatives and saying that, you know, we want to make sure that people have access to health care. So, you know, there's concern about the support for the Affordable Care act, support for that, and we don't want to see people losing healthcare. We think, actually, we think like in most industrialized nations, you know, healthcare is considered a basic right. And so people have access to healthcare without obstacles. And so we encourage United Methodists and others to reach out to congressional leaders as well as work with their state legislations, make sure that even the poorest of the poor have access to health care. We have a campaign that we've been working on for several years now called Grace over Greed.
Bishop Julius Trimble [00:18:49]:
We think that budgets are moral documents so that whether it's your church budget or your family budget or the government's budget, it says something about what we care about, the trillions of dollars we have invested and made pledge to, to support militarization, you know, to support our military. And I think we should support our military, but not to the deficit of supporting the social safety net. So we believe that United Methodists should stand and advocate on behalf of immigrants in our communities we believe that United Methodists should be take action by continuing to join opportunities for faithful witness in the area of peace and justice. And we invite people to go to the UMC justice website umcjustice.org and you'll see many of the both the campaigns that we support, but also ways in which people can advocate and take advantage of our toolkits for action. We currently work with local congregations who have church and society leadership in their annual conferences and peace and justice advocates as well as now we have in all of our communities annual conferences, creation care representatives, persons who are committed to supporting climate justice and creation care. So we would encourage people to embrace many of the things that are available the social principles either online or ordering that through Cokesbury or the resource UMC webpage. And we, we just believe that people should be engaged both in their local communities but also in. In the broader way of witnessing throughout the world.
Ryan Dunn [00:20:45]:
You brought up social principles. Can you offer a little definition on what that the entails?
Bishop Julius Trimble [00:20:51]:
Yeah. The social principles are the. The. The witness of the United Methodist Church our commitment to the things to bring about justice and equity in the world. They are adopted by the General Conference every four years. They, they are printed in our book of discipline or our, our book, our polity document, if you will. And they talk about the things that we care about over 30 different issues from food justice to global cooperation to economic justice to welcoming persons in our churches. No exclusions, regardless of their status, their origin or their condition.
Bishop Julius Trimble [00:21:41]:
The social principles address the issues that we have lifted up as being important to United Methodists. And they trace their roots back to 1908 when the first social creed was drafted. So we have long since as a denomination been committed to whether it was fair labor practices or whether it was healthcare access, whether it's a reduction of gun violence, whether it was care. Stewardship of God's creation is a big piece of the social principles. But the social principles are something while they are not considered law of the church, they are considered the best practical, theological and biblically sound beliefs of United Methodists when it comes to issues of social equity and social justice.
Ryan Dunn [00:22:43]:
You mentioned that in your letter. You were being purposefully provocative. Sometimes being a prophetic voice requires provocation. Certainly you can look at the Old Testament prophets and some of the actions undertaken there and see that, you know, there's intentional provocation and a line of attention going on there. There were a couple phrases or words in your letter that I found a little provocative, not in a negative sense, but just in that they piqued my interest and I would love to hear a little bit more about them, one of them being water based theology and the other being cheap grace. What are some marks or characteristics of water based theology and cheap grace?
Bishop Julius Trimble [00:23:26]:
Well, thank you, Ryan for asking that. I use that water based theology kind of as a metaphor for the various ways in which people attempt to dilute the mandates of Jesus. Jesus says, go and baptize, but teach everything that I have taught you. So when we think about making disciples of Jesus Christ, mission statement of the United Methodist Churches. Making disciples of Jesus Christ. But the second part of that is for the transformation of the world. So water based theology would be a theology that one might paint in such a way that we focus on making disciples but not transforming the world. The water based theology, you know, you think about water based pain in your house.
Bishop Julius Trimble [00:24:14]:
Water based pain is, you know, easier to clean and easier to dilute and pain over, as opposed to an oil based, that's more permanent and more substantive. And you know, Chief Grace Bonhoeffer and others talked about, you know, this notion that God loves us without any expectation on our behalf, we don't earn our salvation. Jesus did all of the hard work for us on the cross. But cheap grace is, you know, is expecting to be blessed by God but not to be a blessing to our neighbors. So that's the best way I put it. Grace is, I say grace. The Trimble definition of grace is that God has a printing press and that God has printed a name tag for everybody. Ryan and Julius have a name tag.
Bishop Julius Trimble [00:25:06]:
And on the back of that name tag is I love you from God. That's God's grace. God loves us. There's nothing we can do to earn that or do it about it. Cheap grace is receiving that love and expecting that we have no responsibility for anyone other than ourselves. So, you know, cheap grace is understanding that, you know, that, that we have food and that's good, but, but we don't have responsibility for feeding those. Cheap grace is, is, is, is picking out parts of the scripture with, but skipping over Matthew 25, 3, 46, which said Jesus says to the least of these, you know, when I was naked, did you clothe me? When I was in prison, did you visit me when I was hungry? Did you bring me food? A cheap grace would skip over that and say, well, I have, you know, I, I've, I've, I've made it by this, the, my bootstraps I raise. And when there are people that don't have boots, that don't have shoes I believe that God is calling us to live above, that we're living beneath our blessings.
Bishop Julius Trimble [00:26:17]:
When we embrace what I call the water based theology, a theology that says that everybody has to be a Christian and that everybody has to embrace what people are. Now what I call is kind of an oxymoron, Christian nationalism, as opposed to belonging, as opposed to grace, as opposed to beloved community.
Ryan Dunn [00:26:46]:
It struck me as you were talking there that grace, the full experience of grace, involves loving others. You noted earlier, however, that a full expression of loving others also involves us loving ourselves. I'm curious how that represents in your life. So for sure that the work of a minister is a work that involves attention, of always feeling like there's more to do or there's more that could be done. I would suspect that especially in the realm of advocacy and, well, trying to not just identify some of the places of harm in the world, but also working to overcome those, there's always more that can be done. So how do you in a sense, retreat from that? For refreshment? Are there practices that, that you, Bishop Trimble, have in your own life that offer you some, I guess, daily renewal? Daily refreshment?
Bishop Julius Trimble [00:27:46]:
Yeah. Yes, I it since I became general secretary of General Board Church and Society and living in D.C. you know, I'm right across from. I can walk to museums that are free. And I happen to, I happen to enjoy going to the theater, live theater with my wife and movies just for what I, what I call sometimes non redemptive entertainment. So, so, and then one of the things, and I encourage just the people that I work with, both, you know, who are in the church and not in the church. You know, one thing, Jesus, when you read this, when you read the Bible, you realize sometimes Jesus was unavailable. And, and I look at that, I said Jesus sometimes said he went away someplace to rest and to pray.
Bishop Julius Trimble [00:28:33]:
And one of the things I do, Ryan, I encourage this to every. Our children are all grown now, but I encourage this to those who are raising families as well. Sometimes you need to be unavailable. And it's not a cruel thing, it's not selfish. But for me, my wife practices this as well. Sometimes we're not available for others. Even for my, I come from my relatively big family and sometimes, you know, just not being not available because I need to have people frequently call it me time. And so it's not so much doing other things.
Bishop Julius Trimble [00:29:08]:
I used to, I, I used to go play table tennis when I was in, when I was an active bishop at one of our churches that had a table Tennis ministry. I thought I was really good, Brian, until I actually went to the table, right? I said, oh, these are people who really do. And so. But I would go periodically, and people didn't know I was a bishop or anything. I would just go in my little shorts and my paddle and just enjoy myself. And being unavailable, I think, is something. The other thing is that I find too, I think, people, in terms of spiritual disciplines, that we. Is what I call humble listening.
Bishop Julius Trimble [00:29:50]:
And some people do it better than I do. But, you know, the opportunity to hear other people's stories and not with no agenda, you know, and not trying to fix them. You know, sometimes as pastors or Christians, we feel like we have to fix people when sometimes what I think people would really want, people just want to know, you know, does my story even matter? And so I think those are some of the things I do. You know, being unavailable, finding things that you love to do and find things that are, you know, I want to call cost neutral, that, you know, you don't have to pay big money for or pay any money for, for that matter. And also learning how to. I'm. I'm. I'm categorized as an introvert.
Bishop Julius Trimble [00:30:38]:
Some people don't think that, but, you know, that's not uncommon for ministers who are to be introverts. And I do have family members who, who are true, true, true extroverts. So sometimes it's harder for introverts to really find those things that really be still. But the Bible tells us for Psalm 46:10, Be still and feel the presence of God. And there are passages which I like to embrace, and that is the times in which Jesus was not available. So being unavailable can be medicine for the soul.
Ryan Dunn [00:31:17]:
I'd like to end this conversation with an opportunity for you to kind of send us out into the world with a sense of purpose and maybe a call to action. And in your letter, you mentioned that this is a critical season to love boldly, to serve joyfully, to lead courageously. That's part of the vision statement of the United Methodist Church you mentioned a few moments ago, inviting people to maybe notify their Congress people about concerns that they have. But I'm wondering if you might add or have a few more thoughts on some concrete practices or disciplines that our listener who's marching out into the world might be able to adopt in their everyday life that help us live into that call to love boldly, to serve joyfully and lead courageously.
Bishop Julius Trimble [00:32:08]:
Yes, yes, Ryan. A colleague shared some years ago that conversation can often serve as the as the currency for positive change. So I would encourage people to find ways to be in conversation. I said conversation, not debate in conversation. Find two or three people that you can be in conversation with. Some of that's happening and we're helping to facilitate some of that through book studies, the General Board of Church and Society. But I think people can do that in their local communities, their local congregations, or their friend circles. Some of that happens on social media platforms.
Bishop Julius Trimble [00:32:48]:
But find time for conversations that bring about peace and that create a sense of belonging. That's one of the things I would recommend people do. The other thing is that begin to read the Bible with an open mind. Read the Bible and say, God, help me to understand what you would want me to, to understand as I, as I begin to read, whether it's starting from Genesis or starting from the Gospel of Matthew, help me to understand and find places where you can, where we can experience belonging and also find places where you can do good. John Wesley said, do all the good you can in all the places you can, in all the ways that you can for as long as you can. And it's been proven, Ryan, that those who serve often find a residual or benefit in that service. So helping others actually is also the practice of blessing ourselves. I often say we should not leave our churches or leave our prayer circles bragging about how God has blessed us as much as we should leave with the mandate to be a blessing to others.
Bishop Julius Trimble [00:34:14]:
I have a personal mission statement which is to encourage all people with the love of Jesus Christ to rise to their highest potential or to be encouraged. And so my ministry is based on a platform of encouragement because I've been encouraged so much throughout my life. And I believe that that is what God comes to Jesus. Jesus says the enemy comes to steal, the. The steal, to kill, to steal and to destroy. But I have come that you might have life. And some translations say say abundantly, some say more fully or more completely. And so I really believe, I really believe, I really believe.
Bishop Julius Trimble [00:34:54]:
And I really believe in the mission statement. So I believe in our vision statement, which is that we should be at this time loving boldly. And so to love boldly for me is easy in this work, because to love boldly means to do justice, as the words say. If you enter into the Methodist Building, on the ceiling in the atrium are the words from Micah 6, do justice, love mercy, walk humbly with God.
Ryan Dunn [00:35:20]:
That is a perfect way to take us out. Bishop Trimble, thank you so much for your time this morning and for sharing your experience with us.
Bishop Julius Trimble [00:35:27]:
Thanks Brian Cool.
Ryan Dunn [00:35:30]:
Thank you so much for joining us on this episode of you. Thank Compass Finding Spirituality in the Everyday we hope today's conversation with Bishop Julius Trimble inspired you to love, boldly, serve joyfully, and lead courageously in your own life. Remember, you can find episode notes and of course more episodes of Compass by visiting our website@umc.org Compass it's the perfect place to dive deeper into what we discussed today and to discover other stories of that can help you on your spiritual journey. I want to give a huge thank you to the team at United Methodist Communications for making this podcast possible. We truly appreciate their dedication and support. If you haven't already, please subscribe to Compass wherever you get your podcast. And if today's episode really resonated with you, we'd be really grateful if you could rate Interview the podcast. It helps others find ourselves.
Ryan Dunn [00:36:25]:
Show and join us then on a journey of finding spirituality in the everyday. Thanks again for listening. We'll be back soon with another episode. Until then, take care and keep seeking those moments of grace, peace.
